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Mr Head 08-30-2010 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinez
Did the bike come with the front break on the right or is something you changed because of personal preference? :scratch

I ride a motorcycle and have done so for 35+ years. All my bicycles have had the front brake on the right, except the latest bike which is the first bike I did not build in about 34 years. That will change once I wear the bar tape enough to warrant replacement. I'm particular and somewhat cheap.

pierce 08-30-2010 10:50 AM

I've been putting my front brake on the right side since BEFORE I rode a motorcycle. I'm a lefty... and when I'm riding with one hand, it tends to by my right hand. on my old road bikes with downtube shifters, I always shifted with my left hand....

Mr Head 08-30-2010 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGenius
If don't really want to spend any more money and I don't plan on entering any contests or whatever.

Why would this bike be a horrible bike to buy?

Frame does not have rear derailleur mount, this likely means stamped drop outs. Low end components will wear out in about 500 miles. A better set up could probably be found used on CL, or elsewhere.

In the $500 range these bikes all seem to me to be similar to the $200 bikes of my past, bottom end bike shop bikes.
Department store bikes used to be around $40 to $80. I don't know what they are now since I don't go by those places anymore.

That is not to say that a deal can't be found. Like a two year old brand new middle of the line bike from Trek or Specialized, or similar company.
For current model year complete bike with good upgradable components I think one would be looking at about a grand.


Paul bought a slightly used Specialized Allez off CL, made some upgrades as he came across them wheels and the like. After about a year he bought a new Roubaix, and sold the Allez minus the upgrades for about what he'd bought it for in the first place. This was his first roadbike and his second bike. The first being a Rockhopper.

I don't think you could peel the Roubaix out of his cold dead hands now.

I am never going to compete at anything again. I know this as a certainty. One reason I went with the more comfortable for me Roubaix. And a triple. And the model of that bike I did was aimed at the components lasting long enough I could rebuild my bicycle fund pile of change to allow for replacements or upgrades.

If I were looking for used I'd look at medium to higher end aluminum with good components and a good fit. Ii don't look at color at all. I'd look the frame over for damage and ride it a little to check for extra flex or odd handling and I'd feel the headset and bottom brackets for bearing adjustment. Too loose probably not maintained. Too tight ham-fisted. Crunchy, walk away. Look at the bottom bracket to see mis-alignment as in cross-threaded in the frame.

Check the shifting and brake cable adjustment and action. If all that is slick and clean the bike is well maintained. should be good to go.

I spent thirty years riding hand made Italian bikes. And riding them a lot. I am never satisfied with medium feel or performance with a frame or components.
As an example: the Roubaix comes in models from about a grand to over 6K. I never considered the top end. Out of my budget, The bottom end did not have what I wanted as far as components, and since the frames were about all the same I looked at bang for the buck. For a new bike that is fine.
since most lightly used bikes are going to be re-sold with the same components they came new with I figure about the same criteria apply. At least for me.
For me I wanted a bike I'd be comfortable on all day long. That is eight to ten hours at worst / best case, depending on your point of view...

The bike I bought fit that. If I were racing and forty years younger my thinking would be quite different.

I would test ride the bike new or used. If not possible loads of pictures to the point of the seller going nuts.

VelvtRide 08-30-2010 11:19 AM

Someone tell me about this bike, please?


Excellent condtion this 57/58 cm Road bike
Shimano Equipped, Dia-compe brakes
Weinman Double wall, sealed bearings wheelset
CST Comp high pressure Tires, (brand new)
New presta tubes, just tuned and cleaned
Ready to ride
asking 225 or best offer

http://images.craigslist.org/3n33k63...f5dcac11f8.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3oa3p03...a4f91f1766.jpg

pierce 08-30-2010 11:25 AM

ah, I found the Shimano components on that $300 Windsor... "A050", they are BELOW 2200 which is below Sora on the Shimano road group hierarchy. 7 speed only.

What Mr Head said. Another one to consider might be the Specialized Secteur, which is like an economy model of the Roubaix, if you can find a late model used one. oops, looks like Secteur was new in 2010. maybe some deals then, in the LBS's? a 2010 Secteur Elite Compact, with 105 components, looks to be a nice ride (of course, I haven't ridden one, so who knows?).

One way to judge a bike is by the parts on it, the better bikes tend to have better parts, Shimano's heirarchy from bottom to top for road bikes is... Sora (3000 series P/Ns), Tiagra (4000 series), 105 (5000 series), Ultegra (6000 series), DuraAce (7000 series). there's also 2200 and A050 below these as I discovered above, I'd avoid these, they are basically cheap junk and won't last a year of decent riding. A full DuraAce group (parts set) runs an obscene $5000 or more, so you'll only find this on a REALLY expensive bike. Ultegra isn't much better. so that leaves 105 as the affordable group of choice.

There's also SRAM, but I'm not up on their group lineups. its good stuff too.

pierce 08-30-2010 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Someone tell me about this bike, please?


Excellent condtion this 57/58 cm Road bike
Shimano Equipped, Dia-compe brakes
Weinman Double wall, sealed bearings wheelset
CST Comp high pressure Tires, (brand new)
New presta tubes, just tuned and cleaned
Ready to ride
asking 225 or best offer

http://images.craigslist.org/3n33k63...f5dcac11f8.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3oa3p03...a4f91f1766.jpg


are you 6' tall, or particularlly long legged? thats a _big_ frame. Centurion was a 70s/80s brand, I'd want to know what sort of steel the frame is made of. if its fully double butted cro-mo tubing, it might well be a very nice bike. if its double-butted 3-main-tubes, its an OK frame.

a lot of bikes that era used 27" rather than 700c wheels, this greatly limits your tire selection. a lot of people swapped 700c wheels into 27" frames, I'd inspect the brakes very carefully to be sure the pads fully reach the rims and aren't on the top edge such that when the brake pads wear down they scrape the tires. presta tubes greatly increases the odds of it being 700c as most 27" stuff was schraeder valved..

my best piece of advise? bring your dad when you go look at it!


Edit: ah, this might be useful info too!
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion/index.html

VelvtRide 08-30-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce
are you 6' tall, or particularlly long legged? thats a _big_ frame.

Edit: ah, this might be useful info too!
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion/index.html

Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice! :thumb

pierce 08-30-2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice! :thumb

in the old days, the rule was, the tallest frame you could stand over with your feet flat on the ground with maybe an inch of clearance before you hit bone. that puts me, 6' tall with 32" inseam pants, on about a 60cm (23.5" old school)

modern roadbike fitting 'rules' tend to suggest a shorter frame. i ran through a fitting guide on a custom frame site, and it suggested that a race bike should be 53-54 for me, but if I wanted a 'french fit', a 57-58 is OK. sadly, I can't find this fit calculator right now, but it took all kinda measurements, like thigh length, height of shoulders while sitting on a hard bench, etc etc.

Stinez 08-30-2010 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Head
I ride a motorcycle and have done so for 35+ years. All my bicycles have had the front brake on the right, except the latest bike which is the first bike I did not build in about 34 years. That will change once I wear the bar tape enough to warrant replacement. I'm particular and somewhat cheap.

I'll mark that down as "personal preference". :thumb

EvilGenius 08-30-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce
does it fit you?

how's the ride quality?

nice that it has Shimano shifters and such, but they don't even say WHICH Shimano, and that means it could be almost anything. Neither that rear derailleur or crankset is any of the road groups on the Shimano site, not even the bottom-of-the-line 2200 or Sora.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Head
Frame does not have rear derailleur mount, this likely means stamped drop outs. Low end components will wear out in about 500 miles. A better set up could probably be found used on CL, or elsewhere.

In the $500 range these bikes all seem to me to be similar to the $200 bikes of my past, bottom end bike shop bikes.
Department store bikes used to be around $40 to $80. I don't know what they are now since I don't go by those places anymore.

That is not to say that a deal can't be found. Like a two year old brand new middle of the line bike from Trek or Specialized, or similar company.
For current model year complete bike with good upgradable components I think one would be looking at about a grand.


Paul bought a slightly used Specialized Allez off CL, made some upgrades as he came across them wheels and the like. After about a year he bought a new Roubaix, and sold the Allez minus the upgrades for about what he'd bought it for in the first place. This was his first roadbike and his second bike. The first being a Rockhopper.

I don't think you could peel the Roubaix out of his cold dead hands now.

I am never going to compete at anything again. I know this as a certainty. One reason I went with the more comfortable for me Roubaix. And a triple. And the model of that bike I did was aimed at the components lasting long enough I could rebuild my bicycle fund pile of change to allow for replacements or upgrades.

If I were looking for used I'd look at medium to higher end aluminum with good components and a good fit. Ii don't look at color at all. I'd look the frame over for damage and ride it a little to check for extra flex or odd handling and I'd feel the headset and bottom brackets for bearing adjustment. Too loose probably not maintained. Too tight ham-fisted. Crunchy, walk away. Look at the bottom bracket to see mis-alignment as in cross-threaded in the frame.

Check the shifting and brake cable adjustment and action. If all that is slick and clean the bike is well maintained. should be good to go.

I spent thirty years riding hand made Italian bikes. And riding them a lot. I am never satisfied with medium feel or performance with a frame or components.
As an example: the Roubaix comes in models from about a grand to over 6K. I never considered the top end. Out of my budget, The bottom end did not have what I wanted as far as components, and since the frames were about all the same I looked at bang for the buck. For a new bike that is fine.
since most lightly used bikes are going to be re-sold with the same components they came new with I figure about the same criteria apply. At least for me.
For me I wanted a bike I'd be comfortable on all day long. That is eight to ten hours at worst / best case, depending on your point of view...

The bike I bought fit that. If I were racing and forty years younger my thinking would be quite different.

I would test ride the bike new or used. If not possible loads of pictures to the point of the seller going nuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce
ah, I found the Shimano components on that $300 Windsor... "A050", they are BELOW 2200 which is below Sora on the Shimano road group hierarchy. 7 speed only.

What Mr Head said. Another one to consider might be the Specialized Secteur, which is like an economy model of the Roubaix, if you can find a late model used one. oops, looks like Secteur was new in 2010. maybe some deals then, in the LBS's? a 2010 Secteur Elite Compact, with 105 components, looks to be a nice ride (of course, I haven't ridden one, so who knows?).

One way to judge a bike is by the parts on it, the better bikes tend to have better parts, Shimano's heirarchy from bottom to top for road bikes is... Sora (3000 series P/Ns), Tiagra (4000 series), 105 (5000 series), Ultegra (6000 series), DuraAce (7000 series). there's also 2200 and A050 below these as I discovered above, I'd avoid these, they are basically cheap junk and won't last a year of decent riding. A full DuraAce group (parts set) runs an obscene $5000 or more, so you'll only find this on a REALLY expensive bike. Ultegra isn't much better. so that leaves 105 as the affordable group of choice.

There's also SRAM, but I'm not up on their group lineups. its good stuff too.


So for $300 ($400 off of the list price) it's still not a good deal?

Stinez 08-30-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice! :thumb

What is your inseam length? :ear


My inseam dictated what size I looked for.
And the length (32") dictated that I looked in the 53/54cm range. :deal
(Although there is some leeway because of Manufactures differences and frame geometry)

VelvtRide 08-30-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinez
What is your inseam length? :ear


My inseam dictated what size I looked for.
And the length (32") dictated that I looked in the 53/54cm range. :deal
(Although there is some leeway because of Manufactures differences and frame geometry)

Can't remember at the moment - waiting to get on my dad's bike and see how it fits. :deal

trailer Rails 08-30-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGenius
So for $300 ($400 off of the list price) it's still not a good deal?

They can say what ever they want the list price to be. That is pretty much a wal-mart bike with drop bars. 300 is a reasonable asking price.

Oznerol 08-30-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce
=oops, looks like Secteur was new in 2010. maybe some deals then, in the LBS's?

To harp on one of my favorite topics: This is the right time of year to look for such deals. Specialized just announced their 2011 lineup, and other manufacturers do the same around this time, if I'm not mistaken. That means shops are going to be a lot more willing to give discounts to move the 2010 stuff.

Also, WRT the Secteur specifically: Prior to 2010, I'm pretty sure Specialized had the Sequoia, another 'relaxed drop bar road bike'. It looks a lot more relaxed than the Secteur, and IMO is also a lot uglier.

However, the Dolce (women's-specific counterpart to the Secteur) has been around a longer than the Secteur, and would be a good bike for VR to look at. My girlfriend has one, and as best I can tell it's a pretty nice ride.

pierce 08-30-2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VelvtRide
Not tall - 5'6", but the Le Monde I'll be riding tonight of my dad's is a 55cm so I thought a 57cm wasn't that big of a difference.

Thanks for the link and all the advice! :thumb


oooh. i'm looking at those pics again. the one that shows the whole bike, the front forks look pushed in. now, maybe this is an illusion, CL pictures are compressed to near junk grade. but I'd examine the lower headset really closely to be sure its still straight and true.

some things I do when I'm looking at a vintage used road bike...

pick up the bike by the handlebars, turn both ways, should feel smooth and light. press down on the frame with the front wheel still in the air and do it again. put the front wheel on the ground, stand over the bike, lock the front brake, and rock the bike front/rear, make sure there's no play in he headset (put a finger around the bottom of the upper headset so you can feel any play while doing this rocking).

derail the chain from the front sprockets, and move it to where its clear of them, then spin the crank, make sure that the BB bearing is smooth. grab the two crank ends and rock them side to side, make sure there's no noticable play.

spin each wheel in the bike with that wheel in the air, make sure the rim is true and has minimal side to side and no up and down wobble.

remove each wheel, spin the axle, should be no play, axle should spin smoothly. put wheels back on bike, rock the rim side to side at the top, you shouldn't feel any play.

inspect the rear derailleur, make sure the plastic chain wheels have teeth left on them, make sure the two chain wheels are square with the sprockets and not bent in at the bottom (this can usually be fixed).

check the chain for stretch. check the front and rear sprocket teeth for excess wear. a stretched chain trashes sprockets, then when you replace the chain you need to replace the sprockets.

ride the bike, before going fast make sure the brakes work well(!!).

shift through all the gears, front and rear, making sure it shifts smoothly (don't cross over the two largest or two smallest sprockets).

pedal hard in a fairly tall gear, note any tink-tink or click-click in the frame. these can drive you crazy on long rides, and can be a bear to chase out (can be the handlebars or stem, or can be the bottom bracket or cranks.

in the smallest rear gear, stand on it hard and make sure the chain doesn't jump.

OH! on vintage bikes, when you have the back wheel off, check the rear sprocket cluster. these can be A) threaded on freewheels. B) uniglide cassette. C) hyperglide or IG cassette. type A and C are readily available. type B is *NOT* available at all as a replacement. sprockets wear out and need to be replaced periodically. If it has uniglide (UG) rear cassette, you MAY be able to change out the freehub part of the rear hub to a HG, if its a Shimano hub.


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