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Aurelius 02-29-2012 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askel (Post 18100371)
Weight is very important.

If price or durability aren't. :D

Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions. :dunno

Aurelius 02-29-2012 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mud (Post 18100388)
I have not really found it to be that dramatic, but I have never been able to do an apples to apples, it has always been comparing similar bikes from different companies.

My experience has been that they have similar response, but the CF is lighter. I am not that sensitive to weight on the trail, so I don't find it a justifiable cost. I put my money into light strong wheels and focus on mass centralization, makes them easier to throw around in the air. :D

I'd love to do a back to back test on the same model: one with a CF frame and the other with an AL frame, but they never seem to have both. The cost isn't that big a deal to me because if I buy a top of the line CF mountain bike, I'll probably never need to buy another one.

Askel 02-29-2012 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100423)
Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions. :dunno

That's because nobody would buy them if they didn't. Gary Fishers are notorious for cracking and breaking. And jumping through the warranty hoops can leave you without a bike for months.

Granted, this is on their aluminum bikes. Very few of my friends can swing the price for name brand carbon fiber.

mud 02-29-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100460)
I'd love to do a back to back test on the same model: one with a CF frame and the other with an AL frame, but they never seem to have both. The cost isn't that big a deal to me because if I buy a top of the line CF mountain bike, I'll probably never need to buy another one.

I am VERY leery of "lifetime warranties" in corporate America. My feeling is the best warranty is the one you never need.

I hear what you are saying though.

mud 02-29-2012 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askel (Post 18100493)
That's because nobody would buy them if they didn't. Gary Fishers are notorious for cracking and breaking. And jumping through the warranty hoops can leave you without a bike for months.

Granted, this is on their aluminum bikes. Very few of my friends can swing the price for name brand carbon fiber.

My friend that fixes carbon frames has fixed quite a few GF's.

BUT, the fact that Santa Cruz and Intense, to name a few, have come out with CF frames says quite a bit toward their potential durability.

Gummee! 02-29-2012 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100460)
I'll probably never need to buy another one.

No such thing

:nono

The rabbit hole is VERY deep. :nod

M

Aurelius 02-29-2012 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mud (Post 18100513)
I am VERY leery of "lifetime warranties" in corporate America. My feeling is the best warranty is the one you never need.

True enough. Even the best warranty is one you'll never want to collect on. I don't like the disclaimer, 'under normal use'. Does that place a legal burden on me to prove that I wasn't doing anything abnormal with the bike when it broke? Short of having a video camera running at all times, how could anyone prove that? :scratch

mud 02-29-2012 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gummee! (Post 18100664)
No such thing

:nono

The rabbit hole is VERY deep. :nod

M

So true, so true.....:lol3

ducnut 02-29-2012 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100200)
... when selecting a mountain bike? I've test ridden two so far; one with a CF frame (Trek Superfly) and the other with an aluminum frame (also a Trek, but a different model). The AL framed one felt like it was made of lead by comparison (about 28 lb). It didn't feel 'heavy' when riding it, but it also wasn't as responsive as the CF bike - at least that was my impression at the time. I assume that when it comes to climbing over humps, fallen branches, and steep hills, the lighter the bike is, the easier it is to ride. Perhaps enough to justify the much higher price of CF. What do the experienced mountain bikers here think?

Are you looking at a FS or HT Superfly (what component level)? And, what exactly is the other bike?

I ask those questions because weight is not just in the frame. It's, also, in the components (primarily wheelset and tires) and wheel sizes. There's, also, perceived weight in geometry. You could be on two bikes that have identical components, but, frames can have totally different feeling through steeper headtube angle, fork offset, trail, chainstay length, and BB height. You gotta' be sure you're comparing like bikes, even if you have to go to another shop to do it. I don't think I'd scour the geometry charts of a bike, looking at all the little nuances. If the one bike feels the best of all that you've ridden, then, go with that one.

I, also, look at one's self. I'm no 3% body fat, stud. Before I go scrutinizing every ounce of a bicycle, I need to first work on myself. However, there's definitely a difference in the weight one feels from a bike. I went from a 3.5" travel, 26" XC bike to a 5.5" travel, 29er trail bike. I truly miss the light and compact feeling of my XC bike.

I've ridden nearly all the trails at Santos, from just outside Dunnellon to ~8 miles east of HWY 441. That's a really nice trail system. The week I was there, they had XC races, at the course by the Santos TH. Looked like all the fast guys were on a 29er HT.

Santos Bike Shop, on 441 (around the corner from Santos TH), has Giants for rent or demo. Greenway Bicycles, right across the street from Santos TH (SE 80th Street), has Niner bikes for rent or demo. If you're looking at a 29er, I'd highly encourage you to try a Niner. Greenway is a really cool shop, too. I went in there to buy a different seat. They openly welcomed me, offered me use of their tools, offered me a beer, offered me a demo on their Niners (I was on my new Specialized 29er). They were like a bunch of guys just hanging out in the garage.....in flip-flops, no less. :lol3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100423)
Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions. :dunno

My buddy broke his Gary Fisher's CF swingarm. Trek warrantied it, with no hassle. They gave him a '12 Fuel EX 9 frame, which is a much nicer/better frame than his HiMod Pro. Unfortunately, he was on the hook to get the fork setup to the new frame.

melville 02-29-2012 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18100423)
Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions. :dunno

When did they go back to a lifetime warranty? Back in 1996 when I was working at a Trek dealer, they reduced their lifetime warranty to 5 years on carbon and suspension products.

Aurelius 02-29-2012 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducnut (Post 18100926)
Are you looking at a FS or HT Superfly (what component level)? And, what exactly is the other bike?

I'm still undecided as to whether I actually need a FS. Riders around here tell me a HT will do just fine for the terrain we have here in Florida. The only reason I test rode the FS Superfly is because it was the store's demo model. The other bike was also a Trek, but I don't recall the model name. It was a HT, and didn't impress me at all. The Superfly also had really fat tires, which I think would work better in Florida sugar sand. I'm not sold on the Trek brand, by the way - it's just that this particular dealership (David's World Cycle) happens to specialize in Trek.

Quote:

I ask those questions because weight is not just in the frame. It's, also, in the components (primarily wheelset and tires) and wheel sizes. There's, also, perceived weight in geometry. You could be on two bikes that have identical components, but, frames can have totally different feeling through steeper headtube angle, fork offset, trail, chainstay length, and BB height. You gotta' be sure you're comparing like bikes, even if you have to go to another shop to do it. I don't think I'd scour the geometry charts of a bike, looking at all the little nuances. If the one bike feels the best of all that you've ridden, then, go with that one.

I, also, look at one's self. I'm no 3% body fat, stud. Before I go scrutinizing every ounce of a bicycle, I need to first work on myself. However, there's definitely a difference in the weight one feels from a bike. I went from a 3.5" travel, 26" XC bike to a 5.5" travel, 29er trail bike. I truly miss the light and compact feeling of my XC bike.

I've ridden nearly all the trails at Santos, from just outside Dunnellon to ~8 miles east of HWY 441. That's a really nice trail system. The week I was there, they had XC races, at the course by the Santos TH. Looked like all the fast guys were on a 29er HT.

Santos Bike Shop, on 441 (around the corner from Santos TH), has Giants for rent or demo. Greenway Bicycles, right across the street from Santos TH (SE 80th Street), has Niner bikes for rent or demo. If you're looking at a 29er, I'd highly encourage you to try a Niner. Greenway is a really cool shop, too. I went in there to buy a different seat. They openly welcomed me, offered me use of their tools, offered me a beer, offered me a demo on their Niners (I was on my new Specialized 29er). They were like a bunch of guys just hanging out in the garage.....in flip-flops, no less. :lol3
I'll check out those shops on a weekend. I definitely need to do some test riding. I know practically nothing about mountain bikes, and I've only ridden through Ocala on a motorcycle, which wasn't fun at all. :lol3

Jim Moore 02-29-2012 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore (Post 17878663)
2614 as of today. 264 total in January. A little less than I need to average, but between the weather and a few little health / injury issues, I'm pretty pleased.

The cruelest month was particularly cruel to my bicycling plan. 2780 as of this morning. 166 miles in Feb, for a total of 430 in 2012. That hurt. I should be at 583 already. I need a couple big (for me) months to get back on track.

Aurelius 02-29-2012 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melville (Post 18101032)
When did they go back to a lifetime warranty? Back in 1996 when I was working at a Trek dealer, they reduced their lifetime warranty to 5 years on carbon and suspension products.

:dunno I bought my Madone back in July, and it came with a lifetime warranty. They tell me all their Trek bikes do.

ducnut 02-29-2012 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18101107)
I'm still undecided as to whether I actually need a FS. Riders around here tell me a HT will do just fine for the terrain we have here in Florida.

They say that around here, too. However, those around here who've had HTs and went FS say they'll never go back. My take on it is: if you're not racing and value a plush ride, go FS. If you've got deeper pockets, the carbon FS XC rigs are as a light as an AL HT. Also, you may take your MTB on a vacation elsewhere. I guess, for me, the great ride trumps the weight everytime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18101107)
The Superfly also had really fat tires, which I think would work better in Florida sugar sand. I'm not sold on the Trek brand, by the way - it's just that this particular dealership (David's World Cycle) happens to specialize in Trek.

The wider tires and a 29er go a long way toward flotation. My GF, on her 26" XC bike, didn't struggle, but, definitely had a harder time with the one spot of soft sand we encountered. I'm all for a 29er, in that regard.

Also, check out the Specialized Camber Epic line.

Edit: I removed the Camber, as it's really more travel than you'd need, for FL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius (Post 18101107)
I've only ridden through Ocala on a motorcycle, which wasn't fun at all. :lol3

Dude, that's an understatement. Fortunately, you'll be on 441 and won't go into Ocala.

Aurelius 02-29-2012 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducnut (Post 18101239)
They say that around here, too. However, those around here who've had HTs and went FS say they'll never go back. My take on it is: if you're not racing and value a plush ride, go FS. If you've got deeper pockets, the carbon FS XC rigs are as a light as an AL HT. Also, you may take your MTB on a vacation elsewhere. I guess, for me, the great ride trumps the weight everytime.

I definitely won't be racing. I just want something as an alternative for the times when I'm tired of riding on asphalt. I saw a lot of CF mountain bikes for sale on e-bay at much lower prices than what I'd be paying at the dealership, so I may try that avenue. I really don't care if they're used and a little scratched up - a brand new one will look the same after my first few face plants anyway. :lol3

Quote:

The wider tires and a 29er go a long way toward flotation. My GF, on her 26" XC bike, didn't struggle, but, definitely had a harder time with the one spot of soft sand we encountered. I'm all for a 29er, in that regard.
Good to know, maybe I should stick with the narrower tires. I've only encountered sugar sand on motorcycles, and it was like riding on wet ice. :arg


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