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Cat0020 10-09-2007 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuffler
Pinched chainstays are bad. I'm running the wrong gearing. My feelings are hurt. What else am I doing wrong? I should just quit racing since I can't get it right. :cry

Why quit something you enjoy just because people tell you you're doing it wrong? You think Miles Davis never played a wrong note? You think Lance never used the wrong gear in a climb?
What I offer is what I learned by doing things the wrong way just as you do.. eventually you will know what works for you.

Gummee! 10-09-2007 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat0020
Why quit something you enjoy just because people tell you you're doing it wrong? You think Miles Davis never played a wrong note? You think Lance never used the wrong gear in a climb?
What I offer is what I learned by doing things the wrong way just as you do.. eventually you will know what works for you.

:norton

:razor

M

Gummee! 10-09-2007 02:20 PM

Idle curiosity question: what makes a Colnago a Colnago? What makes a Merckx a Merckx? Pinarello? Casati? et al. For the most part, them and the cheap Taiwanese knockoffs are using the same exact tubing welded in the same way (generally) and etc.

:ear

Is there a ride difference between say a Battaglin SLX bike and a Merckx SLX bike that can be explained or is it all between the ears?

:ear

Was pondering this question on my ride yesterday (on my 853 Crosshairs that theoretically *should* ride like every other 853 bike :norton)

M

DoctorIt 10-09-2007 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gummee!
Idle curiosity question: what makes a Colnago a Colnago? ...

Subtle differences in geometry should be the biggest reason a good bike handles well. But that obvious aside, not all tubes are created equal. They're all butted very specifically, and therefore need to be cut and oriented properly. Also, hopefully, a 16 year old in a Chinese factory doesn't put the same effort into a weld as Richard Sachs. A good bead won't put residual stresses into a tube. Not all jigs are created as stiff, to tolerance, and otherwise "equal".

With the amazing robotic welders and assembly lines, are the differences more subtle (or nonexistent) these days? You bet. But robots don't do custom. There's still nothing like riding a bike made for your exact measurements. For that reason, a Sachs or Hot Tubes, Zanconato, Steelman, Seven, etc should ride better than a Schwinn or a Giant.

nochance 10-09-2007 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorIt
... There's still nothing like riding a bike made for your exact measurements. For that reason, a Sachs or Hot Tubes, Zanconato, Steelman, Seven, etc should ride better than a Schwinn or a Giant.

Amen...."Seven Cycles" = good living

A custom frame, a good saddle and a solid drive train makes a nice difference

pierce 10-09-2007 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gummee!
Idle curiosity question: what makes a Colnago a Colnago?

Silly rabbit... its the cute little 'clubs' cut into the lugs!

gambrinus 10-09-2007 03:42 PM

Colnago..
 
I heard a nasty thing about Colnago years ago and have no idea if it's true or not...

Basically it is that they have the frames made by several different frame shops and do nothing more than paint and decal frames...

True? Not True?

RW

Homey 10-09-2007 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gambrinus
I heard a nasty thing about Colnago years ago and have no idea if it's true or not...

Basically it is that they have the frames made by several different frame shops and do nothing more than paint and decal frames...

True? Not True?

RW

Like the majority of large manufacturers Colnago does have some frames made in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Taiwan</st1:place></st1:country-region>. They are the low end models. Their signature frames like the C-50 are still made and will continue to be made by Colnago at the Colnago factory. Ernesto Colnago addressed this issue at the international bike show this past year (there is also something on their website about the issue) and as usual someone heard what they wanted to here and started a rumor.

On the issue of custom frames, I spent seven hours on a fit bike getting my bike fit down perfect with the full expectation of having to buy a custom frame set. After looking at different manufacturer’s geometry numbers it turns out I fit perfectly on a stock frame.

My guess is that the majority of people can save the bucs and find a stock frame that will work perfect for them. The only reason I see for spending the extra dollars for a custom frame is if you want a particular frame built by a particular manufacturer and their stock frames don't fit you.

Flaco 10-09-2007 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorIt
Subtle differences in geometry should be the biggest reason a good bike handles well. But that obvious aside, not all tubes are created equal. They're all butted very specifically, and therefore need to be cut and oriented properly. Also, hopefully, a 16 year old in a Chinese factory doesn't put the same effort into a weld as Richard Sachs. A good bead won't put residual stresses into a tube. Not all jigs are created as stiff, to tolerance, and otherwise "equal".

With the amazing robotic welders and assembly lines, are the differences more subtle (or nonexistent) these days? You bet. But robots don't do custom. There's still nothing like riding a bike made for your exact measurements. For that reason, a Sachs or Hot Tubes, Zanconato, Steelman, Seven, etc should ride better than a Schwinn or a Giant.

I remember reading about either Merckx (prolly Merckx, knowing how fastidious he was) or Kelly used to have 20 'identical' frames delivered at the beginning of the season. He'd have each one built up to ride and he'd test and reject, test and reject until he had two or three he liked.

A buddy of mine who's been racing since the 70's and has owned just about every high end frame available said the nicest one he ever road was a DeRosa he bought from a Italian racer dude. He said it wasn't the lightest...or the stiffest...or the prettiest but it was by far the best all around.

I got to ride Patrick OGrady's Steelman CX bike for a practice lap a few years ago. It was super nice.

There is nothing like a properly set up, hand made frame...as long as the seatstays are not pinched.


f.

Flaco 10-09-2007 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochance
Amen...."Seven Cycles" = good living

A custom frame, a good saddle and a solid drive train makes a nice difference

Well put.

Welcome to the Bicycle Thread, Nochance.

Flaco

DoctorIt 10-09-2007 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaco
There is nothing like a properly set up, hand made frame...as long as the seatstays are not pinched.

:rofl

Gummee! 10-09-2007 05:12 PM

I've ridden my fair share of mid-level bikes: Battaglins, a Concorde (arguably underrated), S-Works-es (road and mtn), Bontrager, and etc.

There's differences in rides that are noticable despite what 'its in the tires' crowd likes to say.

I'm just tryin to figger out what makes one set of tubing ride differently when installed in one bike vs another. :norton The math sez 'its all the same.' Ie: Bicycle Guide did a blind ride test a buncha years ago and it seems that even the most discriminating butts couldn't tell the differences between Columbus and Reynolds steels. :confused

I know that my SL Battaglin rode completely differently than my SLX Battaglin (had two of the same) one was lugged (SLX), the other TIG-ed (SL). The SL was 'all day comfy' but was whippy. Sprinting/hard efforts saw the BB swaying ~1cm/side on the power stroke. SLX (same tubing, but a little rifling around the ends of the toobs) wasn't like that. Stiffer. Different ride. Not as comfy, but definitely a bike to race crits on.

:dunno

The best riding bike I've had over the years is an 02 S-Works. :thumb VERY smooth.

Worst riding bike: Bontrager Road Lite. Dead feeling. Could be that I didn't get it new, but...

:confused

M

Askel 10-09-2007 05:19 PM

I guess I need to develop some of these discrimantin' tastes youse guys gots. :dunno


Put me on pretty much any bike and it's ohmygawdsuperawesomeImustownitRIGHTNOW! (My LBS loves me). :lol3

Of course, I'm pretty much the same way with cars and motorcycles as well.

Gummee! 10-09-2007 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askel
I guess I need to develop some of these discrimantin' tastes youse guys gots. :dunno


Put me on pretty much any bike and it's ohmygawdsuperawesomeImustownitRIGHTNOW! (My LBS loves me). :lol3

Of course, I'm pretty much the same way with cars and motorcycles as well.

Ride.

Lots.

For a LOT of years. (I'm going on 21)

M

Queen 10-09-2007 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askel
I guess I need to develop some of these discrimantin' tastes youse guys gots. :dunno


Put me on pretty much any bike and it's ohmygawdsuperawesomeImustownitRIGHTNOW! (My LBS loves me). :lol3

Of course, I'm pretty much the same way with cars and motorcycles as well.

:lol3


I do my buying based on "smile factor" too, I don't know much about what's fancy/nicer/better...but I DO know what makes me grin. :D


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