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-   -   Killboy failure Dragon Fest (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454662)

Boon Booni 05-26-2011 06:30 PM

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this, I was out riding instead of posting like some others who hog up the forums and never leave the computer :evil.



Quote:

Originally Posted by uraberg (Post 16010874)
According to a quick search, both vermont and pennsylvania allow crossing the double yellow in a pass, when it is safe to do so.

Minnesota, Montana and Washington allow drivers to exceed the speed limit while passing on two lane roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moving Pictures (Post 16008784)
I have sped. I don't any more. The only time I would cross the double-yellow to pass would be in one of those "abnormal" circumstances

So in those states where it's not actually illegal to pass on the double yellow, or even "speed" while doing so do you suddenly turn into a ..

Quote:

... self-centred git who has no sense of the law
..when you cross the state line heading out?
Does it make passing on the double yellow less safe in VA, and more safe in Pennsylvania and Vermont?

No. You make your own safety. You decide when a pass is prudent and safe and when it is not, passing zone or double yellow be damned. You decided what the appropriate speed is for a situation. I decide when it is safe and prudent to cross into the other lane and when it isn't. The law doesn't make it safe to do any of these things, and it doesn't make it unsafe to do them either. What's the situation?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16012458)
And don't lump me in with the lane-crossers, dammit! I'm in the "why ride curvy roads to straighten them out" camp! :lol3

As for the why to do it, so far I've only really given a shit about whether it's feasible to ever safely do it. But it's not like straitening out one or two curves on a 800 mile weekend is taking any of the fun away, unless you're in Florida and they're the only two curves you've got.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtDuster (Post 16012607)
Why do you put all the blame on him?

What about the guy that started .

This guy really hasn't had much to say about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reryder (Post 15946838)
If I have a clear line of sight, I use both sides of the road on the twisties.
Double yellow lines are like speed limits: they are only for cars.





Quote:

Originally Posted by Truckin_Thumper (Post 16014135)
where is my fucking sammich? :ddog

It's on the way, shipped via Unimog Express. Beer might get warm.




Snappy Snappy...

Vanishing Point 05-26-2011 07:09 PM

You got to love how in a homage to Babe Ruth he actually points to where he's going to put the bike.

Chromer 05-26-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point (Post 16014901)
You got to love how in a homage to Babe Ruth he actually points to where he's going to put the bike.

Mighty Casey has struck out... :norton

42 05-26-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanishing Point (Post 16014901)
You got to love how in a homage to Babe Ruth he actually points to where he's going to put the bike.

Looks like he's taking a pic of the accident site. Pre accident. :lol3

PFFOG 05-26-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaws justice (Post 16012355)
Not here in New York, but there are a couple of States that allow motorcycles to make a left turn on red when they cannot trip the light. Not legal for a car, but can be legal for a bike. /...


It IS LEGAL IN NY! If the light is malfunctioning, which it is if it will not change, it is legal to go through the light.

SgtDuster 05-26-2011 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Booni (Post 16014630)
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this, I was out riding instead of posting like some others who hog up the forums and never leave the computer :evil.

Hey dude, what don't you understand in the word "enough"?



The "other" guy kinda understood and calmed himself down and brought some intelligent and "valid" arguments to the "debate" to date...what about you? Can't you do the same and give us a break or you're too immature for that?


Geez...

Wheedle 05-26-2011 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truckin_Thumper (Post 16014135)
where is my fucking sammich? :ddog

Its on the counter... you didnt see it?

wait...:lol3

lemieuxmc 05-26-2011 08:52 PM

There is no joy in Mudville...

DAKEZ 05-26-2011 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16015499)
Its on the counter... you didnt see it?

wait...:lol3


:photog

JDLuke 05-27-2011 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy (Post 16013864)
Hell,from the evidence I see in these pictures, its safer to drive on the wrong side at the dragon.:lol3


"Take it easy, will ya? I told you, my brother drives like this."

outlaws justice 05-27-2011 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFFOG (Post 16015068)
It IS LEGAL IN NY! If the light is malfunctioning, which it is if it will not change, it is legal to go through the light.

Do you have a reference for that, I would sure like to print it you!

Advntr 05-27-2011 04:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Seasoned Dragon Slayer here. There are plenty of challenge in the technical aspects of riding the dragon without leaving your lane...with that said here I am caught in the act by killboy...a long time ago...my excuse is as follows

Those are the "Locals" driving their pickup truck...I am very observant, they don't call me dilbert for nothing. They did pull over and let me by.
The line is a reference...just because it's dotted does not mean it's ok and safe to pass.

Blur 05-27-2011 04:51 AM

Even the LEO's are fans of Killboy.......


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...4_567300_n.jpg

Tbone 05-27-2011 05:31 AM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CWINja_BW9...0/img_1183.jpg

enduro0125 05-27-2011 05:54 AM

I think some guys need to go ride in Europe and see how it's done.

I found a couple on this thread I'll never ride with.

outlaws justice 05-27-2011 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enduro0125 (Post 16017579)
I found a couple on this thread I'll never ride with.

:poser :lurk

DAKEZ 05-27-2011 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFFOG (Post 16015068)
It IS LEGAL IN NY! If the light is malfunctioning, which it is if it will not change, it is legal to go through the light.


Good luck with that one. :lol3 That is the same argument that I used when I fought mine in Oregon. Failure to obey a traffic control device. The Judge is a rider and reduced he fine but did not dismiss it.

cliffy109 05-27-2011 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFFOG (Post 16015068)
It IS LEGAL IN NY! If the light is malfunctioning, which it is if it will not change, it is legal to go through the light.

It becomes legal here in VA on July 1st. :clap

xcgates 05-27-2011 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16017822)
Good luck with that one. :lol3 That is the same argument that I used when I fought mine in Oregon. Failure to obey a traffic control device. The Judge is a rider and reduced he fine but did not dismiss it.

I don't have the exact quote or line of regulation, but I used to live in NY, and the technicality is that you have to determine it is a malfunctioning traffic control device, then you treat it as a stop sign, and proceed when safe to do so.

Part of that includes not doing it in front of a cop, because I can't imagine a cop NOT at least pulling you over, so it doesn't look like he is ignoring such blatant red light running.

No such allowance exists in Texas traffic code however, I looked.:cry

Blur 05-27-2011 07:04 AM

North Carolina statute from 2008:

"(e) Defense. It shall be a defense to a violation of sub‑subdivision (b)(2)a. of this section if the operator of a motorcycle, as defined in G.S. 20‑4.01(27)d., shows all of the following: (1) The operator brought the motorcycle to a complete stop at the intersection or stop bar where a steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator.
(2) The intersection is controlled by a vehicle actuated traffic signal using an inductive loop to activate the traffic signal.
(3) No other vehicle that was entitled to have the right‑of‑way under applicable law was sitting at, traveling through, or approaching the intersection.
(4) No pedestrians were attempting to cross at or near the intersection.
(5) The motorcycle operator who received the citation waited a minimum of three minutes at the intersection or stop bar where the steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator before entering the intersection."

DAKEZ 05-27-2011 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16018063)
North Carolina statute from 2008:
(5) The motorcycle operator who received the citation waited a minimum of three minutes at the intersection or stop bar where the steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator before entering the intersection."

Three minutes is a long time to wait. :1drink

Some Mook 05-27-2011 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16018063)
....(5) The motorcycle operator who received the citation waited a minimum of three minutes at the intersection or stop bar where the steady red light was being emitted in the direction of the operator before entering the intersection."

:rofl

So do the LEOs sit there with stop watches to time the motorcyclists and make sure they waited the full mandatory time?

Or-- How does the motorcyclist support his/her full three minute wait when fighting the ticket?

Legislators.......

'Nuff said.

Jim Moore 05-27-2011 07:51 AM

There are several spots in my area where you have to pull up to the line and wait for a green arrow, even if your side has a green light. The bike won't set them off. I've started treating them like green lights. I do a quick head check for the man, then look, press, and roll. I don't even stop.

Blur 05-27-2011 07:59 AM

Remember.....
 
Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left.

xcgates 05-27-2011 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16018446)
Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left.

And I'll bitch to the city until they fix the signals on both of my two routes out of work. I ain't making convoluted turns just to go straight through an intersection with no traffic.:nah

Barry 05-27-2011 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgates (Post 16018678)
And I'll bitch to the city until they fix the signals on both of my two routes out of work. I ain't making convoluted turns just to go straight through an intersection with no traffic.:nah

Exactly... I bust reds in a heartbeat if I wait a full cycle, and then the next cycle doesn't change, waiting won't change that. THEIR light is not MY problem.

xcgates 05-27-2011 08:50 AM

Which, by the way they *fixed*. They recently tore up the road that both lights were on, ground it way down, resurfaced it, and changed the lights to being only timed.:clap

(Don't think it was my clamoring that instigated a 2 week major repair job though. :lol3)

Boon Booni 05-27-2011 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtDuster (Post 16015089)
Hey dude, what don't you understand in the word "enough"?



The "other" guy kinda understood and calmed himself down and brought some intelligent and "valid" arguments to the "debate" to date...what about you? Can't you do the same and give us a break or you're too immature for that?


Geez...

are you

Boon Booni 05-27-2011 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16018102)
Three minutes is a long time to wait. :1drink

Come to Va, after July 1 you only gotta wait 2 minutes


Quote:

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, if a driver of a motorcycle or moped or a bicycle rider approaches an intersection that is controlled by a traffic light, the driver or rider may proceed through the intersection on a steady red light only if the driver or rider (i) comes to a full and complete stop at the intersection for two complete cycles of the traffic light or for two minutes, whichever is shorter, (ii) exercises due care as provided by law, (iii) otherwise treats the traffic control device as a stop sign, and (iv) determines that it is safe to proceed.

pretbek 05-27-2011 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelandestrasse (Post 16014501)

Oh god that is the WORST kind!! Not just going too fast and running wide (almost as stupid and equally lethal), but actually consciously setting up your turn too wide beforehand, so you can blow through it faster.
What, just because you are too fucking lazy to ride properly and slow down, you need to jeopardize MY life coming from the other direction within my own lane!!??

Wow, for a moment I was tempted to let go, which would probably get this moved to Jo Momma very quickly.

spaiduhz 05-27-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretbek (Post 16019994)
Oh god that is the WORST kind!! Not just going too fast and running wide (almost as stupid and equally lethal), but actually consciously setting up your turn too wide beforehand, so you can blow through it faster.
What, just because you are too fucking lazy to ride properly and slow down, you need to jeopardize MY life coming from the other direction within my own lane!!??

Wow, for a moment I was tempted to let go, which would probably get this moved to Jo Momma very quickly.

What disturbs me about this one, is that he is setting himself wide right before a blind turn.

... meh.

spaiduhz 05-27-2011 12:34 PM

Wooh, looks like jack sparrow got dragged a wee bit layin 'er down. Or did his leg get pinned?

Either case, ouch! He is going to have quite the road rash, what with his muscle shirt and all.

outlaws justice 05-27-2011 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaiduhz (Post 16020494)
Wooh, looks like jack sparrow got dragged a wee bit layin 'er down. Or did his leg get pinned?

Either case, ouch! He is going to have quite the road rash, what with his muscle shirt and all.

These are very old pics, he actually got off with little damage to himself. If you look at the pics, he dragged parts because he was leaning the WRONG way forcing the bike down and taking all his ground clearance away.

Blur 05-27-2011 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelandestrasse (Post 16014627)


I'm thinking the locked front tire didn't help....

bwalsh 05-27-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaiduhz (Post 16020494)
Wooh, looks like jack sparrow got dragged a wee bit layin 'er down. Or did his leg get pinned?

Either case, ouch! He is going to have quite the road rash, what with his muscle shirt and all.

I think he was tumbling down the road next to the bike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaws justice (Post 16020525)
he was leaning the WRONG way

So how was he supposed to wave to the camera while paying attention to what he was doing? :lol3

SgtDuster 05-27-2011 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16020934)
I'm thinking the locked front tire didn't help....

Lifted tire...

coop74 05-27-2011 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16010062)
In some (NOT all) States it is legal to speed when passing. :deal

Name one...

manfromthestix 05-27-2011 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelandestrasse (Post 15941608)
Aqua-man and this guy need to get together.
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/slaye.../explosion.jpg


Aquaman :lol3 <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype>on his CBR wouldn't stand a chance with that fire! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
That shot reminded me of a similar experience.<o:p></o:p>

http://manfromthestix.smugmug.com/ph...09_QgnuS-L.jpg

I was riding in Montana on my way to Lolo Pass one fine day and came across a similar sight. This Ford Ranger was just happily burning like a torch in this Lewis and Clark Trail informational turn-off. I passed it and thought WTF?? so I turned around to get a closer look, thinking maybe someone needed help, but there wasn't a soul around. I stopped a ways from it because I didn't want to be too close if the gas tank decided to blow up while I was gawking. I turned away and rode about three miles and met a fire truck headed out to put the fire out. Very strange.


Doug<o:p></o:p>

Blur 05-27-2011 05:48 PM

Had to have the brake applied for it to stop turning. :thumb

42 05-27-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16022535)
Had to have the brake applied for it to stop turning. :thumb

Ugh.

DAKEZ 05-27-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coop74 (Post 16022525)
Name one...


Minnesota, Montana, Washington Wyoming, Nevada.... I am sure there are others.

coop74 05-27-2011 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16022577)
Minnesota, Montana, Washington Wyoming, Nevada.... I am sure there are others.

I stand corrected...

knight 05-27-2011 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16020934)
I'm thinking the locked front tire didn't help....

A quick shutter speed has the ability to freeze the action

The shutter speed on the photo below was shot at 1/400 of a second , it was taken with a Canon 7D which is capable of having a shutter speed as fast 1/8000 a second

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0sWXYyguu...0/img_8609.jpg

anotherguy 05-27-2011 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight (Post 16022792)
A quick shutter speed has the ability to freeze the action

/

Stop making sense. This is the internet.

Blur 05-27-2011 06:28 PM

You're absolutely correct. But I'm comparing the blur of the rear wheel with the front.

Also, take a look at the image just before this one... Tires are blurred then as well.

Sorry - not trying to argue. But just like the riding position noted earlier, going for the brakes during an "oh shit" moment is pretty typical of an inexperienced rider.

knight 05-27-2011 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16022836)
You're absolutely correct. But I'm comparing the blur of the rear wheel with the front.

Also, take a look at the image just before this one... Tires are blurred then as well.

Sorry - not trying to argue. But just like the riding position noted earlier, going for the brakes during an "oh shit" moment is pretty typical of an inexperienced rider.

The light changed with the direction of the camera as did the shutter speed

I think the rider's crash bars dragging may be the reason the rider decided to exit the saddle......err had to lay er down:wink:

enduro0125 05-27-2011 06:53 PM

Sucks he went down,no matter what he is riding or wearing. :deal

anotherguy 05-27-2011 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enduro0125 (Post 16023017)
Sucks he went down,no matter what he is riding or wearing. :deal

Again with the common sense and compassion. Stop that right now. :evil

250senuf 05-27-2011 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anotherguy (Post 16022824)
Stop making sense.

Great concert movie and album BTW

David R 05-28-2011 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blur (Post 16022836)
You're absolutely correct. But I'm comparing the blur of the rear wheel with the front.

Also, take a look at the image just before this one... Tires are blurred then as well.

Sorry - not trying to argue. But just like the riding position noted earlier, going for the brakes during an "oh shit" moment is pretty typical of an inexperienced rider.

I have done that. There was gravel under my front tire when I did it and down I went.

I have improved since then. Once is enough :lol3

"Don't chop the throttle and hit the brakes"

"Keep a cool head and ride through the corner"

It looks like he hit the brake to me. It would not matter much he is already in deep shit.

Up a creek with out a paddle (no gear)

David

Terrytori 05-28-2011 05:14 AM

Yeah... I know... it's not the Dragon but we all seem to be interested in people trying to cancel our Check on a permanent basis.

Sorry if this has already been posted

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/27/p...oad/#continued

baloneyskin daddy 05-28-2011 06:33 AM

There was no contact so the police could care less.

DAKEZ 05-28-2011 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coop74 (Post 16022616)
I stand corrected...

:rofl
It is still technically speeding but is allowed that you can exceed the "limit" to safely maneuver around a slower moving vehicle. It does not mean that you can go blasting past the slow one... It needs to be done in a reasonable and prudent manner.

I like that Idaho has signs posted that if you have cars backed up behind you that you are required to use the pull-outs to let them safely pass. AND THEY ENFORCE IT!!! (especially during the Summer months) :D

LngRidr 05-28-2011 07:39 AM

IS this thread about pictures of people being dumb? Cause it sure seems like theres a bunch of guys would would rather just stand around and whip them out and compare them.

250senuf 05-28-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrytori (Post 16025370)
Yeah... I know... it's not the Dragon but we all seem to be interested in people trying to cancel our Check on a permanent basis.

Sorry if this has already been posted

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/27/p...oad/#continued


Has it's own thread already. "truck tries to punt biker"

Wheedle 05-28-2011 03:43 PM

You folks realize that you can brake while cornering... actually very hard given adequate traction. Even without ABS...

Just saying... there seems to be some 'never touch the brakes in a corner' sentiment here...

Some Mook 05-28-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16028397)
You folks realize that you can brake while cornering... actually very hard given adequate traction. Even without ABS...

I'm thinking that if one finds the need to brake very hard while cornering, someone fucked up along the line somewhere.

cardoctor1 05-28-2011 05:55 PM

May 21, 2011: Busy Saturday but two head-on accidents closed the roadway for several hours in the early afternoon. At least one rider had to be transported to a medical facility.
Another late afternoon accident had Graham County responding to the Cherohala Skyway.
Let these be reminders to ride safe on these challenging roads. Accidents spoil it for others and can result in a costly air-lift, serious injury and sometimes worse.

Wheedle 05-28-2011 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Mook (Post 16028677)
I'm thinking that if one finds the need to brake very hard while cornering, someone fucked up along the line somewhere.

So... you should just say fuck it and pile on into whatever it is you found in your path? How about some moron deciding they want your lane not the one they are supposed to be in? Shit happens, being able to deal with the unexpected is a good thing...

scarysharkface 05-28-2011 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16029225)
So... you should just say fuck it and pile on into whatever it is you found in your path? How about some moron deciding they want your lane not the one they are supposed to be in? Shit happens, being able to deal with the unexpected is a good thing...

I think he's saying don't grab and handful and lock the front wheel.

David R 05-28-2011 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16028397)
You folks realize that you can brake while cornering... actually very hard given adequate traction. Even without ABS...

Just saying... there seems to be some 'never touch the brakes in a corner' sentiment here...

I agree, but not if you are past the limit of traction already. Stuff on that bike is dragging. Putting the brake on will try to compress the suspension and have Less traction.

Or the bike is dragging, the brake will not change the center of gravity. The front wheel will just stop turning.

Just what I see in the pic.

I was in the adirondacks last weekend doing some spirited riding.I was thinking of the original post. I touched the yellow line a couple of times.

As Clint Eastwood would say " A man has got to know his limitations "

David

Some Mook 05-28-2011 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Mook (Post 16028677)
I'm thinking that if one finds the need to brake very hard while cornering, someone fucked up along the line somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16029225)
So... you should just say fuck it and pile on into whatever it is you found in your path? How about some moron deciding they want your lane not the one they are supposed to be in? Shit happens, being able to deal with the unexpected is a good thing...

Would the moron deciding they wanted to be in your lane not be the "someone" who fucked up?

Reryder 05-28-2011 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16028397)
You folks realize that you can brake while cornering... actually very hard given adequate traction. Even without ABS...

Just saying... there seems to be some 'never touch the brakes in a corner' sentiment here...


You can, but you really have to know what you are doing. For many, it is just a good way to fall off.

Your tires only have X amount of traction.
1. If corning forces (centrifugal/centriptal) are using say 90 per cent of X, then you have less than 10 per cent of X available for braking. Very dodgy.
2. On the other hand, if cornering forces are using only 10 per cent of X, then you have almost 90 per cent of traction available for braking.

Unfortunately, when riders get into a corner too hot, they are usually closer to scenario 1 than 2.

enduro0125 05-28-2011 06:52 PM

Trail braking

Learn it. :deal

Wheedle 05-28-2011 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reryder (Post 16029535)
You can, but you really have to know what you are doing. For many, it is just a good way to fall off..

New riders should not be trying trail braking... bu they should be working towards understanding and learning it. It is a valuable tool.

duoderf 05-28-2011 07:42 PM

wow/thread

I can say though that I have been passed on both sides by oncoming traffic in my lane on deals gap, fun road, before and after the crowds clear out

majlee_vmi 05-29-2011 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enduro0125 (Post 16029570)
Trail braking

Learn it. :deal

Okay, I've read the article. Theoretically, I understand it, but how do I learn it? Obviously, sounds like I need to go and find a track course and be taught the technique by an expert in order to properly learn it.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

manfromthestix 05-29-2011 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majlee_vmi (Post 16031189)
Okay, I've read the article. Theoretically, I understand it, but how do I learn it? Obviously, sounds like I need to go and find a track course and be taught the technique by an expert in order to properly learn it.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

I learned about trail braking starting about 45 years ago when I was first getting into competition riding on dirt bikes (motocross, enduros, trials, etc.). I learned a lot of very valuable lessons at relatively low cost :D in all my years of riding in the dirt. The trails/roads are always rough and, unless you're riding on slick rock at Moab or someplace, it's almost ALWAYS limited traction so you have to compensate by use of throttle, brakes, lean angle, moving around on the bike, letting the bike move around under you, etc. I think the vast majority of skills I've learned in the dirt translate very nicely to road riding, but road riding skills don't translate so well to the dirt.

If you haven't already tried it, I highly recommend getting a little dirt bike and flogging it around out in the boonies, crash it a bunch of times (yes, you will) and then getting back on your street bike and see how that feels. It's a very valuable way to round out your motorcycling education and REALLY FUN too!

Doug

P.S. Does your handle majlee_VMI mean you are an alumnus of Virginia Military Institute? We live right outside Lexington where VMI is located...

majlee_vmi 05-29-2011 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manfromthestix (Post 16031753)
Doug

P.S. Does your handle majlee_VMI mean you are an alumnus of Virginia Military Institute? We live right outside Lexington where VMI is located...


Doug,
Yep, I'm one of the "crowd of honorable youth pressing up the hill..." escapees. Appreciate the advice - I'll have to find some time and a place to try this once I get back.

How is Lexington these days - been years since I've been back there.

Lee

dolomoto 05-29-2011 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majlee_vmi (Post 16031189)
Okay, I've read the article. Theoretically, I understand it, but how do I learn it? Obviously, sounds like I need to go and find a track course and be taught the technique by an expert in order to properly learn it.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

Trail Braking is a key skill taught in the MSF Military Sportbike Rider Course (and nearly identical to the MSF ARC-ST).

Tripped1 05-29-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reryder (Post 16029535)
You can, but you really have to know what you are doing. For many, it is just a good way to fall off.

Your tires only have X amount of traction.
1. If corning forces (centrifugal/centriptal) are using say 90 per cent of X, then you have less than 10 per cent of X available for braking. Very dodgy.
2. On the other hand, if cornering forces are using only 10 per cent of X, then you have almost 90 per cent of traction available for braking.

Unfortunately, when riders get into a corner too hot, they are usually closer to scenario 1 than 2.

Sometimes, I've rarely seen people lowside because they were so hot the bike ran out of lateral traction, usually their form is bad causing excessive lean, or they "run out of talent" and try to brake, not trail brake initiate braking, which is often a loosing proposition. Particularly if your form is hosed and you are already dragging hard parts.

If you have good form and you are dragging shit SLOW THE HELL DOWN, there is no prize money for riding beyond the machine's mechanical limits.

hellfire76 05-29-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SgtDuster (Post 16013374)
Right on! So where are yours? :wink:


The pics of myself on the Killboy site are not worthy of being in this thread, I stayed on my side of the yellow line.

B.Curvin 05-29-2011 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16028397)
You folks realize that you can brake while cornering... actually very hard given adequate traction. Even without ABS...

Just saying... there seems to be some 'never touch the brakes in a corner' sentiment here...


Unpossible! You'll die a fiery death and burn to ashes.








:D









:evil





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...yboys06007.jpg

It's extra fun in the dirt cause you can tuck the front then catch it with the throttle.

:wink:

Riteris 05-29-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellfire76 (Post 16034535)
The pics of myself on the Killboy site are not worthy of being in this thread, I stayed on my side of the yellow line.

That is boring. I want you to go back there and keep trying it until you get it wrong.:D

Tripped1 05-29-2011 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Curvin (Post 16034646)
Unpossible! You'll die a fiery death and burn to ashes.


It's extra fun in the dirt cause you can tuck the front then catch it with the throttle.

:wink:


Ok I got to ask.....where is your wind screen :D

xcgates 05-29-2011 02:26 PM

I'm more focused on the amount of suspension travel that has been used up.:lol3

Tripped1 05-29-2011 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgates (Post 16034783)
I'm more focused on the amount of suspension travel that has been used up.:lol3

That isn't unusual at all for a bike that is full tilt boogie around a corner, the bikes only have a little over 5" of suspension travel, you SHOULD be a little over center sitting on the bike, squishing 2" off before apex is completely normal.

I've caught mine 10mm off mechanical bottom and I only did three laps to warm the tires and check new suspension adjustments (SAG already set I may add), I wasn't going full bore.

Dranrab Luap 05-29-2011 02:38 PM

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...nard/K1111.jpg

xcgates 05-29-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripped1 (Post 16034803)
That isn't unusual at all for a bike that is full tilt boogie around a corner, the bikes only have a little over 5" of suspension travel, you SHOULD be a little over center sitting on the bike, squishing 2" off before apex is completely normal.

I've caught mine 10mm off mechanical bottom and I only did three laps to warm the tires and check new suspension adjustments (SAG already set I may add), I wasn't going full bore.

Ahh, never done the whole full-tilt cornering. Something about starting on an old, wobbly UJM cured me of trying to drag hard parts. :lol3

Tripped1 05-29-2011 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgates (Post 16034867)
Ahh, never done the whole full-tilt cornering. Something about starting on an old, wobbly UJM cured me of trying to drag hard parts. :lol3

Indeed, a track prepped SV is another monster, that is for sure.

outlaws justice 05-29-2011 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majlee_vmi (Post 16031189)
Okay, I've read the article. Theoretically, I understand it, but how do I learn it? Obviously, sounds like I need to go and find a track course and be taught the technique by an expert in order to properly learn it.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

Try a total control Class, www.totalcontroltraining.net

E full section both theory and hands on for trail braking

Savoir-Faire 05-29-2011 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripped1 (Post 16034718)
Ok I got to ask.....where is your wind screen :D

He looks like a big guy. Probably off so he can fit. Buddy had a CBR600RR the first year they came out. I took it for a ride but just sitting on it my head was in front of the top edge of the windshield. :huh

Tripped1 05-29-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majlee_vmi (Post 16031189)
Okay, I've read the article. Theoretically, I understand it, but how do I learn it? Obviously, sounds like I need to go and find a track course and be taught the technique by an expert in order to properly learn it.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

Well a track certainly helps. In truth its hard to really learn what your brakes are capable of anyway without a track.

Even than, expert instruction isn't a requirement, but it does take practice, if you can blip-downshifts and keep steady pressure on the brakes you can trail....of course to trail or not to trail is an entirely different argument, and you will hear it both ways.

I think its a required technique that should be in every riders' toolbox, others don't feel its safe.

Wheedle 05-29-2011 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Curvin (Post 16034646)
Unpossible! You'll die a fiery death and burn to ashes. It's extra fun in the dirt cause you can tuck the front then catch it with the throttle.

:wink:

Some of the biggest fun I've had at the track was on a motarded DRZ400S at 'Little' Talladega on the old Pilot Powers. Every lap I was loosing the the front, the back, or both pretty much every corner and gathering it back up. :lol3

Wheedle 05-29-2011 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgates (Post 16034867)
Ahh, never done the whole full-tilt cornering. Something about starting on an old, wobbly UJM cured me of trying to drag hard parts. :lol3

Nothng is more fun than embarassing current gen race reps on something goofy :evil

Wheedle 05-29-2011 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripped1 (Post 16035443)
I think its a required technique that should be in every riders' toolbox, others don't feel its safe.

others dont understand it or cant do it.

Tripped1 05-29-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16036208)
others dont understand it or cant do it.

perhaps

xcgates 05-29-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16036198)
Nothng is more fun than embarassing current gen race reps on something goofy :evil

Last time I really tried to let loose, it started bucking all to hell, and I blew across two lanes of interstate. :eek1

Not saying I can't have fun, but she don't like too much hammering. I suspect the suspension is not quite right, as she handles better with a few pounds of luggage on.:huh

FlySniper 05-29-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enduro0125 (Post 16029570)
Trail braking

Learn it. :deal


What's more? I went riding with another inmate who taught me to trail brake off road (gravel, dirt, roots, etc...) using the FRONT brake.

I thought it was dangerous, stupid and a sure fire way to wad you and your bike into a ball on the side of the trail. To say the least, it scared me at first.

Turns out, he was right! The bike is more controllable, you can carry more speed, turn sharper and get through stuff that would be very hard at low speeds. When you mix it in with spinning/sliding the rear it's awesome!

Tripped1 05-29-2011 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheedle (Post 16036198)
Nothng is more fun than embarassing current gen race reps on something goofy :evil

My last track day I "thought" I was kicking ass....than I got passed by one of the coaches on a stock FZ6 WITH A 260 POUND passenger.

FlySniper 05-29-2011 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manfromthestix (Post 16031753)
I learned about trail braking starting about 45 years ago when I was first getting into competition riding on dirt bikes (motocross, enduros, trials, etc.). ....................






Well, I shoulda' read a bit more..... 205'd again!:freaky

fitenfyr 05-29-2011 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolomoto (Post 16033021)
Trail Braking is a key skill taught in the MSF Military Sportbike Rider Course (and nearly identical to the MSF ARC-ST).


Ahh....well the MSRC TRIES to teach "trail braking" but does a VERY poor job of it.
I am a MSRC coach and honestly that portion of the cirriculum is just a "teaser" into how to effectivly use trail braking.

Heck some of the MSRC coaches out there don't even fully understand it themselves.

The concept in the MSRC/MSF ARC-ST is to expose students to braking in a corner and doing it without loosing control. Not really to show you how to setup for a corner utilizing trail braking or make mid corner corrections with the technique.

If you want a good course on trail braking then you need to find a track. Somewhere that will give you the class room basics of how front, rear or both effect the bike and how to properly use them.
Then put you on the track to try it out.

On the street is no place to learn trail braking and certainly not on your own.

dolomoto 05-29-2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripped1 (Post 16035443)
Well a track certainly helps. In truth its hard to really learn what your brakes are capable of anyway without a track.

Even than, expert instruction isn't a requirement, but it does take practice, if you can blip-downshifts and keep steady pressure on the brakes you can trail....of course to trail or not to trail is an entirely different argument, and you will hear it both ways.

I think its a required technique that should be in every riders' toolbox, others don't feel its safe.


WTF? "Blipping the throttle" and trail braking have nothing to do with each other. Dude, stick to your armchair academics..have you even been on a track?

For street riding, most riders should do most of their braking when the moto is straight up and down (no lean)...a more experienced rider will do the same but reserve some, small portion of the braking as the moto leans into the curve...therefore easing the transition of the suspension and also easing the transition from off-throttle (braking) to on-throttle (accelerating thru the corner).

Blipping the throttle is academic to this exercise as the rider should be matching the road speed to engine speed for a given gear. Blipping the throttle does nothing for that.

Slipper clutches negate this either way.

Trail braking is an Advanced Skill that most street riders should master...independent of throttle position...IMO.

YMMV. :norton

dolomoto 05-29-2011 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitenfyr (Post 16036937)
Ahh....well the MSRC TRIES to teach "trail braking" but does a VERY poor job of it.
...snipped...
On the street is no place to learn trail braking and certainly not on your own.

The MSRC is not a great course, but in it's absence...there's...Nothing. For whatever reason, the DoD has decided to put all Faith in the MSF (regardless of their allegiance to the industry..vis-a-vis, the MIC) vs. relying on more commercial interests...(Total Control, CSS, and many, many others).

I reckon we should dance with the one that brung us...after 14 years...I turned in my dance card.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Crisis management 05-29-2011 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolomoto (Post 16036940)
WTF? "Blipping the throttle" and trail braking have nothing to do with each other. Dude, stick to your armchair academics..have you even been on a track?

You may be overreacting a little..... I took that comment to be something like "one of the skills you should master; blipping the throttle, trail braking, riding side saddle etc"







Mind you, I could be wrong too, I remember being wrong once before, 1984 or 86? :D

dolomoto 05-29-2011 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisis management (Post 16037249)
You may be overreacting a little..... I took that comment to be something like "one of the skills you should master; blipping the throttle, trail braking, riding side saddle etc"
Mind you, I could be wrong too, I remember being wrong once before, 1984 or 86? :D

Too many folks think that "blipping the throttle" somehow equates in some way to trail braking..it does not.

Matching engine speed to road speed is independent of trail braking, but certainly...cooperative. :deal

I think when you say "riding side saddle"...you may mean "hanging off"..well, that's also a skill taught in the MSRC and ARC-ST. Body position "aids" steering and hanging off a bit helps change the CoG enough to affect lean angle without necessarily attracting the attention of LE.

It's a fine line.

YMMV.

Crisis management 05-29-2011 09:48 PM

Clearly I am an ignoramus, thank you for the edifying post, I will totter backwards out of this room bowing at the waist and making grovelling noises as I go.





I assume we morans are second door on the left?

DAKEZ 05-29-2011 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisis management (Post 16037588)
Clearly I am an ignoramus, thank you for the edifying post, I will totter backwards out of this room bowing at the waist and making grovelling noises as I go.


:photog

Crisis management 05-29-2011 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16037617)
:photog

Watch it, I'm on my way to your end of the building now.

Boon Booni 05-29-2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisis management (Post 16037249)
You may be overreacting a little..... I took that comment to be something like "one of the skills you should master; blipping the throttle, trail braking, riding side saddle etc...

Mad skillz!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0sWXYyguu...0/img_8609.jpg

http://xea.xanga.com/e11c71571433019...m150246094.jpg

:evil :rofl


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