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DAKEZ 06-03-2011 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelandestrasse (Post 16075034)

Stupid hurts. :1drink

lemieuxmc 06-03-2011 11:08 AM

Trail braking may be your last option when things go bad, and the thing that gives you a good story about a close call instead of an ambulance ride.

Being an expert rider doesn't mean you can go fast, it means you are in control no matter how fast you go.

Duh...:deal

Blur 06-03-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16075044)
Stupid hurts. :1drink

If you're gonna be stupid, ya' gotta be tough. :lol3

birdie_xx 06-03-2011 11:49 AM

The Polish stuntman.....
 
Quote:

I don't speak Polish but I think I just heard "you fucking idiot!"
She says it with sarcasm and it's more like "You are fucking awesome!" :lol3

Cheers,

EastSideSM 06-03-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwoodward (Post 16073611)
Why?

Easier and safer to learn not to have to. Be done with the brakes before the corner. Adding more throttle on the way out is always easier than trying to slow down more partway in.

There's no prize money, or trophy to win on a street ride.

Easier maybe, safer, definitely not, STUPID not to properly understand and how to properly actively trail brake or engine brake, ABSOLUTELY.

What happens when you don't know what the bike is going to do when you downshift quickly and that rear wheel hops out if you aren't prepared for it(I'm assuming no slipper clutch)? I'll tell you, that rider is going to panick even more and grab even more brake or something and highside.

Learning how to ride means learning how to ride. It doesn't mean that you pick and choose the things that are easy and rationalize that it is somehow safer. That is just being blissfully ignorant.

txwanderer 06-03-2011 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideSM (Post 16075743)
Easier maybe, safer, definitely not, STUPID not to properly understand and how to properly actively trail (engine) brake, ABSOLUTELY.

What happens when you don't know what the bike is going to do when you downshift quickly and that rear wheel hops out if you aren't prepared for it(I'm assuming no slipper clutch)? I'll tell you, that rider is going to panick even more and grab even more brake or something and highside.

Learning how to ride means learning how to ride. It doesn't mean that you pick and choose the things that are easy and rationalize that it is somehow safer. That is just being blissfully ignorant.


You would be amazed (or maybe not) of how many people have absolutely no idea what the machine beneath them is doing. I have had many, many long time riders tell me what was happening and all I could do is :huh.
Even after filming them, they argue that they had the front wheel turning left in order to go right. Too much talking about riding instead of doing it I guess, or it sounded good and that is how they chose to believe.

You are right about learning to ride, and not trying to pick and choose what is "safe" and what is "dangerous". Dangerous is half baking it. You may get away with it for a long time, but sooner or later it will bite you.

Cheers

BUBB 06-03-2011 02:59 PM

The Gap is a nice piece of road - too bad about folk getting in over their head.

Bubb and Bubbwife

http://cindy.smugmug.com/Motorcycles...12_whokW-O.jpg

Boon Booni 06-03-2011 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16075044)

Looks like stupid also bounces. :D

gelandestrasse 06-03-2011 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Booni (Post 16078194)
Looks like stupid also bounces. :D

It's a series:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater3.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater4.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater5.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater6.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater7.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YDzbAhE8QM...ayerhater8.jpg

B.Curvin 06-03-2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideSM (Post 16075743)
Easier maybe, safer, definitely not, STUPID not to properly understand and how to properly actively trail (engine) brake, ABSOLUTELY.


Are you saying that engine braking and trail braking are one and the same?

"In applying this technique, motorcycle riders approach turns applying front brakes to reduce speed. As they enter the turn, they slowly ease off the brakes, gradually decreasing or trailing off the brakes as motorcycle lean increases."

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking

lemieuxmc 06-03-2011 07:42 PM

Just because you're leaned into a turn doesn't mean that you can't use the brakes to slow or stop the bike.

DireWolf 06-03-2011 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideSM (Post 16075743)
Easier maybe, safer, definitely not, STUPID not to properly understand and how to properly actively trail (engine) brake, ABSOLUTELY.

What happens when you don't know what the bike is going to do when you downshift quickly and that rear wheel hops out if you aren't prepared for it(I'm assuming no slipper clutch)? I'll tell you, that rider is going to panick even more and grab even more brake or something and highside.

Learning how to ride means learning how to ride. It doesn't mean that you pick and choose the things that are easy and rationalize that it is somehow safer. That is just being blissfully ignorant.

He never said it was STUPID.

Engine Braking does not equal trail braking.

dwoodward is an accomplished and long time rider.

Blissfully ignorant, indeed.

DAKEZ 06-03-2011 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DireWolf (Post 16078938)
He never said it was STUPID.

Engine Braking does not equal trail braking.

dwoodward is an accomplished and long time rider.

Blissfully ignorant, indeed.


:stupid ................................:1drink

dwoodward 06-03-2011 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAKEZ (Post 16073723)
Knowing trail braking and practicing it allows for increased speed while never out-riding your sight line.

I think it's time for the "what do you mean by trail braking" sub-thread.

Because what I understand it to mean doesn't sound like it'd be useful for what you take it to mean.

dwoodward 06-03-2011 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideSM (Post 16075743)
Easier maybe, safer, definitely not,

Ah, Scuse, please.

"Being done with the brakes before the turn" means that, when you enter a turn, you are entering slow enough to react in what you can see. How is that not safer than still being slowing down as you tip the bike in? Ignoring the obvious traction sharing thing, of course, and the fact that I'm not talking about riding on a track. No track crew or EMS on hand if I overbrake and pitch the bike.

And again with the "define trail braking".

And again with my mantra: make the thing you do out of HABIT the safest thing you can do. You may choose to do otherwise, but make it a conscious choice- because if you get tired, distracted, of just plain fuck up, you want your habits kick in and do something safe while you mentally bitch-slap yourself back into the game.

And I'm probably understating when I say it's "easy" to be off the brakes early, because it appears damn few riders can do that when we ask 'em to.


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