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-   -   Killboy failure Dragon Fest (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454662)

bwalsh 04-24-2011 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Stain (Post 15745014)
I've been a Professional Driver for the past 16 years. I've taken High Speed, High Force Driving Courses, I've taken Low Force Driving Courses. I've taken Certified Emergency Vehicle Operator Courses. I've also taken my mandatory Defensive Driving Courses and been trained to drive Heavy Truck by the local Driver Examiner. I've spent the biggest portion of my career on the road.

What I have always been taught is that the "Speed Limit" is the upper most speed which you can drive. You're not supposed to drive faster than that. It does not mean that you can't drive SLOWER than the posted limit. And at a certain level below the posted limit, you are supposed to use your Four Way Flashers to indicate to other drivers that you are a slower vehicle. I have read nothing in the LOCAL vehicle code that requires anyone to Yield to faster traffic, or wave them past. Mind you, I could be forgetting something I learned long ago.

I fail to understand why many of the riders in this forum seem to believe they are above the law and that slower traffic should always yield to them when they want to go faster. Is it annoying to get behind Gramma and Grandpa when they're out for their Sunday drive? Damn Straight. But they're not breaking the law.

Would it be courteous to pull to the right and let faster traffic pass? Sure. It would also be nice if traffic would get out of the way of my Ambulance or Rescue Truck with lights and sirens, but that doesn't always happen either. In many jurisdictions I believe its illegal for a vehicle to pass another in its own lane, unless the first vehicle is on the shoulder.

While some of the pictures in this thread clearly illustrate a "failure to ride prudently", I just can't understand why every thread here has to turn into a Cruiser/Harley bashing thread, thinly veiled as it may be. The first couple of pictures show that some BMW riders clearly can't navigate the Dragon either.

The most important lesson I ever learned in MSF Class was this, "Ride your own Ride." And it still rings true today.

Well said!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore
Some of you "Adventure Riders" have an interesting perception of danger and risk level. "Tiera del Fuego? The Yukon?

That's a pretty lame comparison.

PFFOG 04-24-2011 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x_hog_ridr (Post 15745082)
I safely pass slower bikes and wave the faster bikes by.
I pass because I want to go faster than the bike in front of me.
I wave them by because it is the courteous thing to do. (do unto others)

Why can't we all get along?

Bingo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by windmill (Post 15743362)
................
Most folks have the character and wisdom to recognize there is a time and place for everything, some can't see beyond their own self centered desires.

Who is self centered??? Me asking for common courtesy and a split second of your time to allow me to safely pass, or you who feels you should dictate the pace I am comfortable at , and hold me up for several minutes. If faster riders had to back off for every inconsiderate rider/driver, many roads would become parking lots. So I kindly ask for a split second vs the minutes you feel , and legally can take from me.

You guys all need to go to Europe and learn that ANY act that allows traffic to flow faster is a good thing, that is why they let you filter forward at lights, RR crossings etc. They are smart enough to realize that you will soon be gone and they carry on as they were, a win-win situation. Same on interstates, get the heck out of the left lane, it is not that hard.

So those that refuse to be courteous to fellow motorists, do you also stand still on the moving sidewalks in the airport and block those walking? How about on a narrow hiking path, do you refuse to yield and hold up those that want to move faster? I am just trying to get my head around the mentality.

zDollar Bill 04-24-2011 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Booni (Post 15745317)
If you're riding the "Dragon" then yes. You headed there because you read about it on the internet. You knew how twisty it was going to be. You knew how people would be riding, because again, you read about it on the internet. There's a reason that there's a tree with all kinds of motorcycle parts hanging from it. You read about that on the internet too.

I'm not saying I agree with how the road is ridden by many of the folks that ride it, because it is ultimately a public road, but you know what you're getting into by going there, so keep you head out of your ass because there are plenty of folks who won't keep theirs out of theirs. Keeping your head out of your ass means knowing not only what is front of you, but also what is trying to crawl up your ass, and since your head isn't up there you probably also want to keep someone elses out of there too.

You can blah blah blah the speed limit all you want, I've only seen the cops pull over 18 wheelers for going through there. You went to the "Dragon", you decided to go to the "Dragon", so stop whining about all the aggressive riders.

Why you would go here to ride fast when you can pick another highway with less traffic and just as many curves?
Oh you seen it on the net, heard how crowded it is, had to go and pass on a blind curve and get you picture taken.
It worked for this guy, and he got to lay'er down.
Not worth it .

DELTATANGO 04-24-2011 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore (Post 15744946)
I'm talking generally. I agree squid-boy was a nitwit. I'd rather have a nitwit in front of me instead of behind me.

OK Jim. I'll get over, but don't rush me.

farmerstu 04-24-2011 09:53 AM

I've been lurking here for a long time. this thread prompted me to join so i could add my 2 cents to this thread.
please read this news clipping first.

TELLICO PLAINS, Tenn. A Florida motorcyclist was killed Saturday when he veered into the path of three other oncoming riders along the Cherohala Skyway in Monroe County, according to the Tennessee Highway Patrol.
Robert N. Tittenhofer, 44, of Middleburg, Fla., died in the crash, which also injured a trio of motorcyclists from Virginia, Trooper Philip Warren's report states.
The victim was riding a 2007 Honda CBR1000 westbound on state Highway 165 at mile marker 22 just before 4 p.m., when he veered into the eastbound lanes at a right-hand curve. Tittenhofer's cycle nicked an oncoming Harley-Davidson, sideswiped a Kawasaki and then struck a second Harley-Davidson head-on, according to the report.
All four riders were wearing helmets.


my wife and I were on the charahala that day. riding a little above the speed limit. trying to be courteous we waved the group of sportbikes by.

in about a minute i heard the crash impact and in seconds we were on the scene.



I have often asked myself since then ,if i had not waved them by and allowed them to pass us in our lane 1 rider would still be alive and others would not have been seriously injured.

do it again. no way. I will never again have that on my conscious.
hopefully my future posts will be on a lighter note.

Boon Booni 04-24-2011 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerstu (Post 15746622)
I've been lurking here for a long time. this thread prompted me to join so i could add my 2 cents to this thread.
please read this news clipping first.

TELLICO PLAINS, Tenn. — A Florida motorcyclist was killed Saturday when he veered into the path of three other oncoming riders along the Cherohala Skyway in Monroe County, according to the Tennessee Highway Patrol.
Robert N. Tittenhofer, 44, of Middleburg, Fla., died in the crash, which also injured a trio of motorcyclists from Virginia, Trooper Philip Warren's report states.
The victim was riding a 2007 Honda CBR1000 westbound on state Highway 165 at mile marker 22 just before 4 p.m., when he veered into the eastbound lanes at a right-hand curve. Tittenhofer's cycle nicked an oncoming Harley-Davidson, sideswiped a Kawasaki and then struck a second Harley-Davidson head-on, according to the report.
All four riders were wearing helmets.


my wife and I were on the charahala that day. riding a little above the speed limit. trying to be courteous we waved the group of sportbikes by.

in about a minute i heard the crash impact and in seconds we were on the scene.



I have often asked myself since then ,if i had not waved them by and allowed them to pass us in our lane 1 rider would still be alive and others would not have been seriously injured.

do it again. no way. I will never again have that on my conscious.
hopefully my future posts will be on a lighter note.

I'm sorry to read your story.

It could very easily have read, I refused to pull over to give a rider a safe line to pass, so he crossed the line trying to pass me and hit another rider head on.

It wasn't your fault.

windmill 04-24-2011 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFFOG (Post 15745680)
Bingo!



Who is self centered??? Me asking for common courtesy and a split second of your time to allow me to safely pass,
Why do you feel you have the right to force others into being complicit in your illegal activities?
or you who feels you should dictate the pace I am comfortable at , and hold me up for several minutes.
The law dictates the pace, not the motorist.
If faster riders had to back off for every inconsiderate rider/driver, many roads would become parking lots.
No, they would flow smoothly and safely.
So I kindly ask for a split second vs the minutes you feel , and legally can take from me.
Don't want to be restricted by traffic laws? take it to the track, grandma and the pirates wont be there.

You guys all need to go to Europe and learn that ANY act that allows traffic to flow faster is a good thing, that is why they let you filter forward at lights, RR crossings etc. They are smart enough to realize that you will soon be gone and they carry on as they were, a win-win situation.
Well move back to Europe, or get involved with government and change the laws. BTW I lived there 5 years, there are so many differences it isn't possible to compare.
Same on interstates, get the heck out of the left lane, it is not that hard.
No argument there.

So those that refuse to be courteous to fellow motorists, do you also stand still on the moving sidewalks in the airport and block those walking? How about on a narrow hiking path, do you refuse to yield and hold up those that want to move faster?
I would also question why someone wouldn't show courtesy when it is legal, safe, and reasonable to do so.
I am just trying to get my head around the mentality.
Why is so hard to understand that there are some folks who find enjoyment in ways other than going fast and prefer to not be pressured by adrenaline junkies?

You want others to modify their behavior to suit your desires, but are unwilling to modify your behavior to suit their desires.
See the contradiction here?

I am neither a squid nor pirate and avoid any place they are likely to congregate because the loud slow pokes, and twitchy speed freaks are equally clueless as to how annoying they are to the other 99% of the population.

Personally if I do find myself in a circumstance where I am being followed by someone who obviously wants to pass in a no pass zone with no shoulder, I will keep right and maintain my pace. If they do decide to pass I will slow and keep clear of them. If there is a shoulder, I will move right to the shoulder if and when I feel it is safe for me.

I do not signal others to pass, that's not my decision to make, I ride my own ride not theirs. If they crawl up my ass, or have their high beams on, I do nothing but ride my ride.

DAKEZ 04-24-2011 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moving Pictures (Post 15745033)
So what you're saying is that I'm not supposed to watch my line, keep an eye out for shitheads in the oncoming lane, but rather shift considerable parts of my focus to watching out for unsafe idiots coming up behind me at twice the posted speed limit, and assume that their primary behaviour will be illegal, unsafe and impatient acts and pull over on a blind curve where there's heavy traffic, possibly putting myself at risk to compensate for an asshat that can't behave nicely in public?


Is that what I said? No? I didn't think so...

If you do not know what is coming up behind you then you should make some changes in your riding habits.

If you can not pull off frequent and necessary mirror checks without using up "considerable parts of my focus" then riding is likely not the best mode of transportation for you. I might suggest a train or a bus. :1drink

DAKEZ 04-24-2011 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalsh (Post 15745374)
A: decided the lead bike rider is a dick because he didn't pull over immediately to let someone pass who may or may not have been behind them for 2 miles or 10'. I must have missed the backwards camera angle to determine that.

B: sided with the squid that you can SEE crossed the double yellow line for an unsafe pass an proceeded to fixate on and run into the ditch with a locked up rear tire. Seems to me HE is the Noob and shouldn't be on that road...or any road if that's the best he can do.:rolleyes

A: I never said the lead rider was a dick... I simply stated that pulling right and letting a faster rider safely pass is the right thing to do.

B: I did not side with the squid... In fact I identified him as :asshat
This is a forum. Ideas get thrown out... Things get discussed... The banter is both entertaining and often filled with Golden nuggets that should be stowed away in the bag of tricks that each ride should have to make riding both safer and more enjoyable. Knowing what is coming up behind you and being polite by waving faster riders by are two of those Golden nuggets.

Ride Safe Rid Often. :beer

PFFOG 04-24-2011 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windmill (Post 15746727)
...........or get involved with government and change the laws. .................

Well there are too many laws now, and when you think about it MOST laws are because not all people can use their heads. And there is laws on the books in some states that require you to pull over at the first opportunity if you are blocking traffic.

And I am no squid, and am not one to gas it in the straight and race to the necy corner, I keep a steady pace, which means most people I am trying to pass, I catch because they park it in the corners. NO roads are not racetracks, and I don't treat them as such, but if my pace is faster, it just makes no sense to impede them. As I said, a split second of courtesy, and all are happy, vs two riders/drivers possibly becoming frustrated. It would also be less frustrating if passing zones were not based on how long it takes grandma in a k-car to pass an 18 wheeler. But that is another discussion.

Live and let live! And I always reward a courteous gesture, with a friendly wave. :wave

DAKEZ 04-24-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerstu (Post 15746622)
I have often asked myself since then ,if i had not waved them by and allowed them to pass us in our lane 1 rider would still be alive and others would not have been seriously injured.

do it again. no way. I will never again have that on my conscious.
hopefully my future posts will be on a lighter note.

This was NOT your fault.

This was NOT your fault!!!

Waving faster riders past makes thing safer for all not more dangerous.:deal

Do not let one incident dictate your actions and have the potential to do more harm than good.

Did I mention this was not your fault?

windmill 04-24-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore (Post 15744838)
Is it really that tragic / upsetting / difficult to slow to the speed limit and let someone ride their ride? Here's a quick primer: Tail lights appear in front of you. Slow down, hang back, when you come to a passing zone, pass the slower vehicle. Continue your ride.

It's really just that simple, you fast-riding, road-hogging, drama queens.

Modified to show another point of view. Whats wrong with being willing to also give, not just take?

DAKEZ 04-24-2011 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windmill (Post 15746727)
Why do you feel you have the right to force others into being complicit in your illegal activities?

The law dictates the pace, not the motorist..

No, they would flow smoothly and safely.

Don't want to be restricted by traffic laws? take it to the track, grandma and the pirates wont be there.

Well move back to Europe, or get involved with government and change the laws.BTW I lived there 5 years, there are so many differences it isn't possible to compare.

Why is so hard to understand that there are some folks who find enjoyment in ways other than going fast and prefer to not be pressured by adrenaline junkies?
.

Clearly windmill remains obstinate. :lol3

Zerk 04-24-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Moore (Post 15744838)
Is it really that scary / dangerous / difficult to pull over to the right and let soemone by? Here's a quick primer: Headlights appear in your rearview mirrors. Move to the right. Make a "pass me" signal with your left hand. Bike goes past you. Continue your ride.

It's really just that simple, you slow-riding, lane-hogging, drama queens.

Have you rode the Dragon?

windmill 04-24-2011 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFFOG (Post 15747162)
Well there are too many laws now, and when you think about it MOST laws are because not all people can use their heads. And there is laws on the books in some states that require you to pull over at the first opportunity if you are blocking traffic.
Playing devils advocate here, You expect others to obey the law so you can break them? To not impede traffic does not carry any obligation to commit an illegal act.
And I am no squid, and am not one to gas it in the straight and race to the necy corner, I keep a steady pace, which means most people I am trying to pass, I catch because they park it in the corners. NO roads are not racetracks, and I don't treat them as such, but if my pace is faster, it just makes no sense to impede them. As I said, a split second of courtesy, and all are happy, vs two riders/drivers possibly becoming frustrated.
Are you willing to show equal courtesy and slow down and back off for someone who wants to ride at the speed limit until you come to a legal passing zone?
It would also be less frustrating if passing zones were not based on how long it takes grandma in a k-car to pass an 18 wheeler. But that is another discussion.

Live and let live! And I always reward a courteous gesture, with a friendly wave. :wave

It is fairly rare that I find myself truly frustrated by the acts of slower motorists, or aggressively pressured by faster ones, In reality, on the road this hasn't been much of an issue for me one way or the other.

If you find that You are often or constantly frustrated by the actions of slower motorists you may be more squidly than you think.


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