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-   -   Pyrenees offroad knowledge base (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531976)

DominicDomingo 12-08-2009 10:28 AM

Pyrenees offroad knowledge base
 
Recently a few people have asked me various good questions about Pyrenees off roading, none of which I was able to answer.

I thought it was time to start a thread and shed some light on the situation.

Any knowledge on the legal situation, access issues, and above all TIPS for choice rides are needed.

Bring it on.

:clap

DominicDomingo 12-08-2009 11:05 AM

In particular I'd love to know of very scenic pistes which are not too technical, beacuse I'll be going through on Africa Twin, but nice trails to get out of civilisation a bit.

Possu 12-08-2009 11:47 AM

Ride Reports are a good source of info...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229716

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347445

Louisdut 12-08-2009 11:58 AM

Road books & GPS routes Here

If thats any help

Louis

DominicDomingo 12-08-2009 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louisdut
Road books & GPS routes Here

If thats any help

Louis

:beer
That looks fantastic, the "Boucle Catalane" is right in my area and seems like an "easy roller" as they say in French.

:thumb

vander 12-08-2009 01:07 PM

Legal Situation. (for Catalonia)


On the web is only available in catalan.

http://mediambient.gencat.net/cat/el...lei_9_1995.jsp


basically:

art.5 Identification
-All motorised vehicles (MV) need a license plate.

art.6 Roads
-In "areas of special protection" (law 12/1985) the circulation of MV is only permitted on trails and rural roads specifically named in the area management programs.
-The roads open to MV must be pavimentated or be 4 or more meters wide.

art.7
-It is forbidden to circulate outside of the roads or trails.

art.8 Restrictions and prohibitions
-In the "areas of special protection", in hunting reservoirs, natural reserves and wild fauna refuges, the gov. has the right to establish seasonal limitations or limitations related to the max speed, type of vehicles or any other needed to preserve the area.
-Local authorities have the right to establish limitations on the roads that are his responsability.
-The access to natural spaces can be banned if there is risk of fires or there are fires.

art.11 Signposting
-The Administration that restricts or limitates the acces is responsible to properly signal the roads that have specificall limitations or bans.
-The signals have to placed at the entering and exiting of the roads.

art.13
-The max. speed will be 30km/h.

art.16 Groups
-In "areas of special protection" the maximal number of vehicles in a group is 7 motorbikes or 4 cars.
-In the rest of areas the limit is 15 vehicles. This number can be reduced or the circulation banned if the admin. considers it necessary.

art.17 Organized activitys
-For organized group activitys, it is needed the approval of the route by the gov., the corresponding Catalan Federation (cars or bikes), the local gov. etc...

art.18
-It is forbidden to ride in groups during the night time.








The penaltys for not respecting this regulations have changed since this. I think they are now, for example, 150€ if you ride on forbidden places. But if they catch you a second time the penalty will be then 3.000€.




The Gov. is now planning changes to this law, but everything is allways soooo slow in the Admin. :huh




Hope it helps, even if I put some strange words in the translation :D

DominicDomingo 12-08-2009 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vander
Hope it helps, even if I put some strange words in the translation :D

That is really a tremendous service :thumb


Art. 11 in particularly is encouraging! I know that in my road tours here, I've seen many interesting trail/piste heads, but wondered if it they were legal. I guess that if they're not posted, I can go?

vander 12-08-2009 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DominicDomingo
That is really a tremendous service :thumb


Art. 11 in particularly is encouraging! I know that in my road tours here, I've seen many interesting trail/piste heads, but wondered if it they were legal. I guess that if they're not posted, I can go?

Only if they are wider than 4m.

The 4m is for the whole lenght of the road, not only for the entrance... what makes the law almost impossible to follow. The gov. knows it.
One of the changes beeing studied id the creation of a "green license". You pass some exams to see if you're able to ride on the mountain without destroying it (*) and the you get your license.
If you're seen violating the rules, you get a fine and loose your license, so byebye trails.


(*)we have to see what the standards will be. I fear allready...

DominicDomingo 12-08-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vander
Only if they are wider than 4m.

The 4m is for the whole lenght of the road, not only for the entrance... what makes the law almost impossible to follow. The gov. knows it.
One of the changes beeing studied id the creation of a "green license". You pass some exams to see if you're able to ride on the mountain without destroying it (*) and the you get your license.
If you're seen violating the rules, you get a fine and loose your license, so byebye trails.


(*)we have to see what the standards will be. I fear allready...

But the local culture LOVES motorsport, in particular bikes. Every time I'm anywhere in the local hills, I see lots of local dudes on their 125-400cc dirt bikes going to and from their off road rides. These are not MX riders, so there must be a selection of trails available?

I imagine that the difficulty in following the 4m loose guideline (that's how I'll think of it:D) must make it equally difficult to apply?

vander 12-08-2009 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DominicDomingo
But the local culture LOVES motorsport, in particular bikes. Every time I'm anywhere in the local hills, I see lots of local dudes on their 125-400cc dirt bikes going to and from their off road rides. These are not MX riders, so there must be a selection of trails available?

I imagine that the difficulty in following the 4m loose guideline (that's how I'll think of it:D) must make it equally difficult to apply?

Yes, the motorsport has a strong tradition, but that also means that many people hates it. The more bikes the more noise and in proportion, more idiots around.
The people you see is basically trying to have a nice day with bikes and friends. Nearly all of them will have to break the law at any point because it is simply not reallistic.
There are a lot of "open" tracks, but there are also many "closed".

4m: It is very easy to apply... they wait at some part where the road is narrower and they can stop everybody.
They are more permissive with DS bikes than with enduro, as the DS normally have all papers and plate in order and the riding is supposed to be more relaxed.

kktos 12-09-2009 12:21 AM

Sadly, I dont know much about off road in the Pyrénées but I know inmates who do: Aurel & kimangao.
I'll send them here

aurel 12-09-2009 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louisdut
Road books & GPS routes Here

If thats any help

Louis

I've tried a few of these road books and they are very good. The perfect solution for someone looking to do an off-road trip in the Pyrénées, good mix of on/off-road, good scenery, good tracks, not too technical (these road books are for 4WD), only open tracks, informations on gas station, accomodation, etc :thumb

blacktiger 12-09-2009 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DominicDomingo
Recently a few people have asked me various good questions about Pyrenees off roading, none of which I was able to answer.

I thought it was time to start a thread and shed some light on the situation.

Any knowledge on the legal situation, access issues, and above all TIPS for choice rides are needed.

Bring it on.

:clap

One of those people was me with this question....

In 1998 I rode around the Andorra area on my TS200R and covered areas in Alt Urgell, Pillars Sobira and Cerdanya and a lot of the tracks I rode were marked as "cami" on the maps I used. Shown as a single black line.
Can you tell me if it is still legal to ride these tracks? I heard rumours that the rights to ride certain types of route had been changed recently.
Thanks.


Anyone know the answer?

Or is it as simple as no sign and 4m wide is good to go? Actually, 4m is quite wide...........almost a main road in rural parts.

markie_wales 12-10-2009 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurel
I've tried a few of these road books and they are very good. The perfect solution for someone looking to do an off-road trip in the Pyrénées, good mix of on/off-road, good scenery, good tracks, not too technical (these road books are for 4WD), only open tracks, information on gas station, accomodation, etc :thumb

Seconded - did RB 1 and 1/2 of RB 3[1] this year and had a blast. Well worth the money. Only improvement is if they could supply as a roll rather than a book, as I had to scan, print and stick it into a usable rolling RB.

Cheers

Markie


[1] Mate fell ill for a day or so so he stayed in bed while I bimbled around the Sort / Andorra area.

blacktiger 12-28-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vander
Legal Situation. (for Catalonia)


On the web is only available in catalan.

http://mediambient.gencat.net/cat/el...lei_9_1995.jsp


basically:

art.5 Identification
-All motorised vehicles (MV) need a license plate.

art.6 Roads
-In "areas of special protection" (law 12/1985) the circulation of MV is only permitted on trails and rural roads specifically named in the area management programs.
-The roads open to MV must be pavimentated or be 4 or more meters wide.

art.7
-It is forbidden to circulate outside of the roads or trails.

art.8 Restrictions and prohibitions
-In the "areas of special protection", in hunting reservoirs, natural reserves and wild fauna refuges, the gov. has the right to establish seasonal limitations or limitations related to the max speed, type of vehicles or any other needed to preserve the area.
-Local authorities have the right to establish limitations on the roads that are his responsability.
-The access to natural spaces can be banned if there is risk of fires or there are fires.

art.11 Signposting
-The Administration that restricts or limitates the acces is responsible to properly signal the roads that have specificall limitations or bans.
-The signals have to placed at the entering and exiting of the roads.

art.13
-The max. speed will be 30km/h.

art.16 Groups
-In "areas of special protection" the maximal number of vehicles in a group is 7 motorbikes or 4 cars.
-In the rest of areas the limit is 15 vehicles. This number can be reduced or the circulation banned if the admin. considers it necessary.

art.17 Organized activitys
-For organized group activitys, it is needed the approval of the route by the gov., the corresponding Catalan Federation (cars or bikes), the local gov. etc...

art.18
-It is forbidden to ride in groups during the night time.








The penaltys for not respecting this regulations have changed since this. I think they are now, for example, 150€ if you ride on forbidden places. But if they catch you a second time the penalty will be then 3.000€.




The Gov. is now planning changes to this law, but everything is allways soooo slow in the Admin. :huh




Hope it helps, even if I put some strange words in the translation :D


This document is titled "Natural Areas". Does that mean National parks or does it mean everywhere?


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