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-   -   Airbag Jacket any good? ( Hit Air Safermoto jacket & vest) (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535224)

mikeyoda 12-20-2009 03:10 PM

Airbag Jacket any good? ( Hit Air Safermoto jacket & vest)
 

Are they any good?



http://www.hitairaustralia.com/
The idea looks good ,but does it really work.

Cheers
Mike
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HaChayalBoded 12-20-2009 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyoda

Are they any good?



http://www.hitairaustralia.com/
The idea looks good ,but does it really work.

Cheers
Mike
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friend of mines old man or uncle is either the supplier or importer for hitair. I checked out a few of em. They look good. Every time I see him I'm tempted to pull the cord. Only thing I'm leary of is the fact that the 8" long 1" thick CO2 canister is mounted over your rib cage. So, say you forget to connect to your bike, fall off, land on that, it would SUCK big time.

with the hit air jackets the CO2 catriges are replaceable, in case the spill didn't ruin the jacket.

the videos look good, check em out.

John Smallberries 12-21-2009 10:22 AM

Impact Jacket
 
Had mine (Impact Jacket) for 3 months now and believe I'll stick with it. Here is a previous thread:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509467

I'd recommend one of these to anyone.

I'm working on a simple magnetic reed switch gizmo that senses when I have it properly attached. My first prototype just lights a white LED tie-strapped next to the speedo. My next iteration will be a bit cleaner.

I've had no concerns about getting off the bike with the tether attached. If I forget, the tug is a reminder that doesn't trigger inflation. My bigger worry is the 2-3 times I've come to a stop and realized that I never connected it. No connection - no inflation! Hence the drive to build the attachment sensor.

BMW could integrate this into their bikes with full electronic interlock for under $10!

Donster 12-23-2009 06:28 AM

If it takes longer than, say, 30 milliseconds to fully inflate (car airbags use an explosion to to this), then it would seem to be useless.

John Smallberries 12-23-2009 06:42 AM

30 milliseconds
 
Don't be so quick to reject. They do take far longer than explosive car airbags to inflate - closer to 500 milliseconds. A car bag must inflate quickly to save the little old lady driving with her face 3 inches from the steering wheel. On my bike, I'm more worried about hitting the ground - which is much farther away. If you look at my previous thread, you will see a YouTube video of a guy jumping off his sport bike as the jacket inflates. It gives an idea of the time involved.

Donster 12-23-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewanwannabe
Don't be so quick to reject. They do take far longer than explosive car airbags to inflate - closer to 500 milliseconds. A car bag must inflate quickly to save the little old lady driving with her face 3 inches from the steering wheel. On my bike, I'm more worried about hitting the ground - which is much farther away. If you look at my previous thread, you will see a YouTube video of a guy jumping off his sport bike as the jacket inflates. It gives an idea of the time involved.

If it's the ground you're worried about hitting (and not the side of the little old lady's car as it pulls out in front of you), then wouldn't top notch armor be about as effective, far less complex, and without the risk of mechanical failure?

John Smallberries 12-23-2009 03:31 PM

Armor and air
 
I think you would like to have both. The airbag provides additional space for decelleration when you hit - which lowers the impact force. The armor distributes the impact load and reduces the chance for any puncture. You would think that running the airbag over traditional armor would be the ideal scenario.

Check out this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcTv6N5ppEU

I wish they would have run another 10 seconds of video to show the guy walking away!

My Impact Jacket material is very tough on its own and has "CE armor" (I'm sure there is a more technically accurate term) in the elbows and shoulders.

The inflation mechanism seems very simple and robust, but you still run the risk of forgetting to attach it. That's why I'm still working on a connection sensor. Other makers are working on accelerometer-based systems - but then you get electronics and batteries involved.

I suspect we'll see better systems hit the market at some point.

My Ford safety engineering friends would say that the ideal answer is a 2010 Taurus!

HaChayalBoded 12-23-2009 04:29 PM

poor bike. That guy was a stint man though, he prepared for impact. What do you do if you're sideswiped or broadsided and hit the ground or have the vehicle hit you before you actually separate from the bike?

Say you lay the bike down in a low side, you hit the ground while still tethered to the bike, if you do this on the right, then you end up impacting that large metal cylinder before the airbag goes off.

PauHana 12-23-2009 04:43 PM

Here's an video of a guy that had one on during an accident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoGDw...eature=related

12voltclothing 12-23-2009 08:08 PM

Be nice if they made pants to

Dan Alexander 12-24-2009 11:30 AM

I understand the concern about the co2 cartridge, I don't carry anything hard in my jacket pockets. But, I do like the benefits of the whole jacket with the upper arms, torso, spine and neck brace all inflating. If you are going down what are the chances of landing on the cartridge itself ... maybe 5% and even then that might not be as bad as what would happen if you didn't have the inflation aspec at all. IMHO

SaferMoto 02-20-2010 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewanwannabe
Don't be so quick to reject. They do take far longer than explosive car airbags to inflate - closer to 500 milliseconds. A car bag must inflate quickly to save the little old lady driving with her face 3 inches from the steering wheel. On my bike, I'm more worried about hitting the ground - which is much farther away. If you look at my previous thread, you will see a YouTube video of a guy jumping off his sport bike as the jacket inflates. It gives an idea of the time involved.

Contact me about getting an upgraded keybox. Hit-Air have redesigned it and it now inflates the airbag completely in less than 250ms.
Info about how to do the upgrade is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yoIL3YTZ9M

Slow motion testing is here (watch in HD so you can see the milliesecond counter in the upper right hand corner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_jvY-ySnFg

levain 02-21-2010 05:13 AM

I don't know. I like the idea, but, something about it just seems prone to human/mechanical error. Forgetting to plug it in. Leak in cartridge. Leak in airbag. Failure of unit itself. How far can you slide before friction/heat pops the bag? Not to mention I just know I'd get off my bike in front of 100 people and forget to unplug.

How safe are these jackets without the air? I noticed on the safermoto.com site they do come with armor, but, we all know that could also be just a piece of foam. Not real armor at all. Seam strength? Burst strength? Abrasion resistance? This has got to be a VERY strong jacket if you're expecting to slide 150 feet without wearing through the outer fabric and hitting the bag.

I'd want this jacket to stand alone and rely on the air as a "bonus".

edit!
just read through the safermoto faq. That answered some of my questions/concerns. I still like the idea, but, just feel like the risk of failure outweighs the possible benefits. My biggest concern is the bag not deflating for whatever reason and landing on the c02 thingy. Seems they could have put it in a different spot?

SaferMoto 02-21-2010 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I don't know. I like the idea, but, something about it just seems prone to human/mechanical error. Forgetting to plug it in. Leak in cartridge. Leak in airbag. Failure of unit itself. How far can you slide before friction/heat pops the bag? Not to mention I just know I'd get off my bike in front of 100 people and forget to unplug.

Hi Jim,
Attaching the jacket or vest is like putting on a seatbelt. It turns into something you just do like strapping your helmet and gloves. A leak in the cartridge is highly unlikely. It is similar to cartridges in life vests (PFDs) etc. and I've never heard of one leaking. The cartridge sits in they keybox and is not punctured until the vest is activated.
The system is elegantly simple and there is a stainless steel ball in a spring powered piston. When the ball is pulled out the piston slams into the CO2 cartridge and punctures it.
I had one of our racers crash and slide on the tailbone part of the airbag 40-50 feet. This did burn a hole through the outer nylon cover and the airbag itself but by that time, the vest had done its job.

It is really hard to accidentally set one of these off. If you watch some of the videos, you can see the amount of force needed to set it off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams
How safe are these jackets without the air? I noticed on the safermoto.com site they do come with armor, but, we all know that could also be just a piece of foam. Not real armor at all. Seam strength? Burst strength? Abrasion resistance? This has got to be a VERY strong jacket if you're expecting to slide 150 feet without wearing through the outer fabric and hitting the bag.

I'd want this jacket to stand alone and rely on the air as a "bonus".

The jackets are comparable to any top quality textile jacket. You can see some good high-res and close-up pictures in the SaferMoto gallery. They do come with a worthless foam back pad but I upgrade this with every jacket or vest that I sell with a CE rated piece.

PJungnitsch 02-21-2010 11:46 AM

I used to think my Aerostich had enough armor for anything but after breaking a good chunk of my right shoulder last fall I looked harder at these airbag devices (funny how an injury focuses the attention!).

Picked up a YS vest the other day in the mail from Safermoto and tried out a test inflation at work on Friday:


<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6FxNh6Z-mTM&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>


First impressions

-vest is well made, looks like a quality piece. Bulkier, and I'd guess warmer, than the Icon Hi-Viz I had before, but still fairly trim before inflation.

-the inflator is bigger than I thought, feels like an overstuffed pocket. However there is armor behind it, plus the air bag, so it appears it won't cause problems. You can get extra chest armor yet, but I don't think I'll bother for now.

-it takes a pretty sharp tug to pop the trigger, looks like accidental inflation won't be a problem.

-inflation is almost instant, even though I have the old style slower assembly.

-the vest doesn't inflate a huge amount (no 'Michelin man'), but still probably 4 to 5X more thickness than the Aerostich armor I had. Grips tightly, feels reassuring. Starts to release air right away but still holds pressure a considerable time, more than enough to stop rolling, IMO.

-neck is supported very well, and between the 'collar' and the shoulder inflator I think it would have prevented a lot, if not all, the shoulder and head damage I suffered.

-repacking was surprisingly easy, a few snaps.


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