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Geek 08-12-2011 05:00 PM

Building an Adventure Van
 
Updated Photos: July 2013

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/photos/i-...printer-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/photos/i-...er-open-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...nter-LH-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-sunset-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/photos/i-...nkeeboy-XL.jpg

Updated photos Mar 2013

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...terCamp-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...TheJunk-XL.jpg


Updated photos 1/20/12:
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...aytona3-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...DSC1591-XL.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Spr...d-front-XL.jpg


Updated photos 9/20/11:
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...DSC1256-XL.jpg
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...DSC1300-XL.jpg


The building of our Adventure Van

The Objective
An Adventure Van.
A van that is comfortable for two people when we pursue our outdoor pasttimes which include:
dirtbikes, mountain biking, snowboarding, fly fishing, hiking, camping, etc etc.

This means it needs to be comfortable, versatile, and "convertible".

The Foundation
2011 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 2500.
144" wheel base, high ceiling.
3.0 Turbo Diesel V6.

The engine is Bluetec which means it is an ultra low emissions vehicle.

I bought the vehicle from Mercedes Benz of Henderson Nevada a couple of weeks ago.
800 miles away. I hopped on my 950 and rode out to the dealership in 111 degree heat.. loaded the bike in the back (with the help of 4 strong guys at the dealership :D ) and drove it home. 1640 miles in less than 2 days.

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...t8586019-L.jpg

Photos from the drive home:

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...t4644985-M.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...t3928338-M.jpg

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...t3218371-L.jpg

Pretty much a clean slate for us to build from :thumb

...let the games begin!

FLYING EYEBALL 08-12-2011 05:01 PM

:clap

adiablolex 08-12-2011 05:02 PM

locked in
:lurk

Geek 08-12-2011 05:14 PM

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...shistory-M.jpg
Mercedes-Benz is the world's largest manufacturer of commercial vehicles, the first van was created in 1896.

Why A Sprinter?

1) Headroom. I'm 6' tall and I have about 3" of head clearance standing straight in the van.
2) Gas mileage. I'm currently averaging about 22mpg. This should improve as the van breaks in (upto 10,000 miles).
3) Lust. I just think they are cool and sometimes life is too short to not buy what you want... :D

Background (from a North American point of view).

Sprinters hold their value insanely. Even van's with 200,000+ miles on them are going for $15,000 :huh

There are two generations (for our purposes) of Sprinters... we don't get the cool ones like the Europeans or Aussies (they can get 4 cylinders, they can get 4wd, etc etc)... our choices are limited to what are commonly referred to as the "NAFTA" editions.

We have two basic generations. The T1N and the NCV3

NCV3 on the left.. T1N on the right:
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...M/t1ncv3-M.jpg
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...bulances-M.jpg


Generation 1: Upto 2006 was the T1N. They are 5 cylinder turbo diesels and are famous for their incredible gas mileage. Commonly called a "Tin" in Sprinter circles. Sprinters have always had Mercedes engines in them but these were sold as Dodge vehicles here in the US. You will see many of them have been re-badged as Mercedes.

There are guys on the Sprinter forum with 750,000+ miles on their T1N sprinters.
There was a guy who posted recently his just flipped 500,000 miles and he has done absolutely NOTHING to the engine outside of scheduled maintenance :bow

Generation 2: 2007 to current is the NCV3 (new concept van 3). These are 6 cylinder turbo diesels and do not get the gas mileage of the T1Ns. In 2007/2008 they were sold as Dodge and then in 2009 Freightliner as well. Since Dailmer and Dodge have gone their seperate ways, 2010 and 2011 are sold under the Mercedes moniker from Mercedes dealers (which means the parts have Mercedes prices :patch )

The NCV3s started off with not the biggest fan fare. The 2007 & 2008 versions average less than 20mpg, which with Sprinters being famous for gas mileage, wasn't so popular of a fact...

The latest generation of Sprinter engines (the Bluetec engine) has been redesigned with higher compression and efficiency getting the vehicle up over 20mpg again :clap

...but the Bluetec comes at a price... you spend 2 cents a minute on "cow piss" :rofl

(to be continued.. dinner is ready).

Geek 08-12-2011 05:58 PM

Shopping for a Sprinter

Each Sprinter comes with a few variables.

http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/images/...o-van-line.png

2500 vs 3500.
The 3500 is a dually.

2500:
http://static.cargurus.com/images/si...-2300-tmb.jpeg

3500 (extended):
http://dodgetrucks.lynchtruckcenter....inter_3500.jpg

Roof Heights:


High roof (as seen above.. you can stand up inside) vs.
Low Roof (better gas mileage.. no standing up)

There is also a super rare "MEGA roof" available.. but I've only seen one single van for sale with a megaroof in the past year.
They have something crazy like an 84" internal height in the mega.
That dually pictured in the previous post is in fact a mega roof (you can see the extra strip on top compared to the highroof pictured above it).

Low roof:
http://dodgetrucks.lynchtruckcenter....inter_2500.jpg


Passenger vs Crew vs. Cargo
Passenger vans come with more windows, more seats (which can be removed) and more interior finish. If you are doing a full conversion anyways, you are likely not going to use the interior stuff you are paying extra for. Crew vans come with two rows of seats and more windows than cargo (see my van). Cargo vans come with just the front two seats, a stripped industrial interior, and usually a cargo partition behind the driver to protect them in case of an accident.

and finally....

Wheel base.
The T1Ns came in various lengths:
118" shorties (super rare in the US though we saw one outside Aspen a couple of weeks ago)
140" medium wheel base
158" long wheel base

The NCV3s come in two lengths in the US
144" (what I purchased)
170" - the long one - and a 170" extended is also available which is another foot longer at the back again...

Put all these together and you ave a rather large collection of permutations and combinations (not counting the cab only configurations). Combine this with not a lot of them out there.. and it becomes a real challenge to find the right one for what you are wanting to do!

I spent literally months watching for the right van.

Generally:
Fleet vans tend to be fairly beat up (the drivers don't own them and can treat them as such).
Individual owners who babied their vans wanted near-new money for them.

It took us quite a while to decide exactly what configuration we wanted.

High roof: no brainer.

2500: better in the snow and we're planning on snowboarding with it every weekend in the winter.

144": All that space in a 170 sure is tempting (especially when you see the guys that have set theirs up with a garage in the back :tb ).. But.. the 144 can go more places (high centering a 170 is a worry for us as we want to get into the back country where we can with the van. That combined with the difficulty of using 170 in the city (I'm using it for my business as well and don't fancy trying to parallel park a 170 in downtown Denver :eek1 ) made the 170 a non-option for us.

Here is our van last weekend camping on Weston Pass. I don't think we would have been able to get a 170 to this location...
http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201...L/weston-L.jpg


So long story short(er)... I searched for such a long time for "just the right sprinter" that I ended up saving enough money up to just go buy a new one... so I did :rofl

Sic Semper Tyrannis 08-12-2011 06:24 PM

I so want to do this....

Beamklamp 08-12-2011 06:24 PM

Will there be indoor plumbing??

NDEBT 08-12-2011 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beamklamp (Post 16615817)
Will there be indoor plumbing??


It is not an adventure unless you have to shit outside:lol3.

Geek 08-12-2011 06:35 PM

Bluetec

"Dude! Yer van runs on PeePee!" -Wolfman (yeah.. the owner of Wolfman luggage) :rofl

Bluetec is an "interesting" technology.

Executive summary: I have to keep the PeePee tank full or the van won't run :patch

The good:
-It allows them to up the compression on the diesel engine and get better performance/gas mileage.
-ULEV status (ultra low emmissions)

The bad:
-complexity
-You have to fill up the AdBlue tank (which isn't cheap :patch ).
-AdBlue is 33% urea (urine) so it allows your buddies, like Eric, to tease you :freaky

paraphrasing wikipedia:

The BlueTec system was created because the processes that give diesel engines efficient fuel economy also creates extra emissions of certain pollutants. High compression ratios and lean air-fuel mixtures make high combustion temperatures, which results in more nitrogen oxides being released into the atmosphere. While the particulate matter can be controlled with higher injection pressures and particulate filters, the big challenge is limiting NOx

Consisting of many different elements, BlueTec most notably relies upon particulate traps to eliminate soot/smoke throughout the engine's operating range, and upon urea injection from a stored canister (Mercedes calls this AdBlue) into the exhaust stream. AdBlue injection begins a chemical chain reaction which, in conjunction with an additional catalytic converter, converts nearly all remaining NOx into water vapor and nitrogen.

What it means from an owner's point of view:

The van carries 5 gallons of AdBlue on board. This is good for somewhere around 8000 miles.
When it gets down to 2 gallons left it'll warn you.
When it gets down to 1/2 gallon of AdBlue it will let you start the engine something like 20 more times before it disables the vehicle.

Moral: keep some adblue with you. :patch
I already went and bought a couple of cases.

It has all kinds of sensors to keep track of the system.. (you can't dilute it with water.. or pee in the tank.. I asked :D ).
The van can get upto 1800 miles per gallon of Adblue.

The cheapest I've seen Adblue is $9 per half gallon (i.e. $90 per 5 gallons).

You have to be very, very careful when filling the adblue.. if you spill it it will crystallize and eat things like wiring, etc :eek1

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...ot951788-L.jpg

Geek 08-12-2011 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beamklamp (Post 16615817)
Will there be indoor plumbing??

That's still being debated by SWMBO and myself.. :rofl

...sorry for all this back story gents.. I'm trying to get caught up to where we actually are and then I'll go forward as we do more stuff.

The actual build has "kinda" began...

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/201.../IMG2794-L.jpg

DELTATANGO 08-12-2011 06:41 PM

Was anyone injured?

I'm just bullshitting....

It's sharp.

Put up some more pix.

ROYAL COACHMAN 08-12-2011 06:46 PM

Oooooooooooohh an Adventure Van :tb
I'm happy for you guys, this is cool!!

I'm assuming you can fit the Ktm and F650 in the back?
Gonna build storage racks or cabinets for it?

Planning on sleeping in it? (fold down cots)
How about the refridgerator to keep the wine cold:lol3

Details ED, we need more!

Give my best to Cheryl :freaky
:lurk:lurk

NDEBT 08-12-2011 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geek (Post 16615919)
Bluetec

"Dude! Yer van runs on PeePee!" -Wolfman (yeah.. the owner of Wolfman luggage) :rofl

Bluetec is an "interesting" technology.

Executive summary: I have to keep the PeePee tank full or the van won't run :patch

The good:
-It allows them to up the compression on the diesel engine and get better performance/gas mileage.
-ULEV status (ultra low emmissions)

The bad:
-complexity
-You have to fill up the AdBlue tank (which isn't cheap :patch ).
-AdBlue is 33% urea (urine) so it allows your buddies, like Eric, to tease you :freaky

paraphrasing wikipedia:

The BlueTec system was created because the processes that give diesel engines efficient fuel economy also creates extra emissions of certain pollutants. High compression ratios and lean air-fuel mixtures make high combustion temperatures, which results in more nitrogen oxides being released into the atmosphere. While the particulate matter can be controlled with higher injection pressures and particulate filters, the big challenge is limiting NOx

Consisting of many different elements, BlueTec most notably relies upon particulate traps to eliminate soot/smoke throughout the engine's operating range, and upon urea injection from a stored canister (Mercedes calls this AdBlue) into the exhaust stream. AdBlue injection begins a chemical chain reaction which, in conjunction with an additional catalytic converter, converts nearly all remaining NOx into water vapor and nitrogen.

What it means from an owner's point of view:

The van carries 5 gallons of AdBlue on board. This is good for somewhere around 8000 miles.
When it gets down to 2 gallons left it'll warn you.
When it gets down to 1/2 gallon of AdBlue it will let you start the engine something like 20 more times before it disables the vehicle.

Moral: keep some adblue with you. :patch
I already went and bought a couple of cases.

It has all kinds of sensors to keep track of the system.. (you can't dilute it with water.. or pee in the tank.. I asked :D ).
The van can get upto 1800 miles per gallon of Adblue.

The cheapest I've seen Adblue is $9 per half gallon (i.e. $90 per 5 gallons).

You have to be very, very careful when filling the adblue.. if you spill it it will crystallize and eat things like wiring, etc :eek1

http://topgeek.smugmug.com/Other/Ran...ot951788-L.jpg


You are getting ripped off. DEF all has to meet the same requirements in the US. The ford part # for 2.5 Gal is PM27J it is about $15.00 for 2 1/2 gallons. The blue is just dye.

Geek 08-12-2011 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYAL COACHMAN (Post 16615994)
Oooooooooooohh an Adventure Van :tb
I'm happy for you guys, this is cool!!

I'm assuming you can fit the Ktm and F650 in the back?
Gonna build storage racks or cabinets for it?

Planning on sleeping in it? (fold down cots)
How about the refridgerator to keep the wine cold:lol3

Details ED, we need more!

Give my best to Cheryl :freaky
:lurk:lurk

Hi Glen! :freaky

Queen size bed: definitely
Fridge: eventually

Bikes: we'll have a variety of weighs to bring 1, 2 or 3 (dirtbikes for each of us + trials bike) with us.. stay tuned :D

Hey.. aren't you a woodworker? Wanna come visit for a while? :rofl

Geek 08-12-2011 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDEBT (Post 16616026)
You are getting ripped off. DEF all has to meet the same requirements in the US. The ford part # for 2.5 Gal is PM27J it is about $15.00 for 2 1/2 gallons. The blue is just dye.

My understanding is that standard DEF uses an oxidizing catalytic converter and particulate filter combined with zeolite. There are other Mercedes vehicles than can run on DEF (and MB sells their version DeNOx)...

Adblue on the other hand is urea based and works differently in its chemical reactions?

...that said, I could be totally wrong. I'm a systems engineer and know nothing about diesels other than owning a few of them and what I've been told/read.
I'd love to learn more about it (perhaps in another thread).

:freaky


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