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-   -   Enclosed Scooter engine swap, etc (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721859)

motoretro 09-02-2011 05:23 PM

Enclosed Scooter engine swap, etc
 
I have a project I'm trying to decide if it's feasible or not.:1drink Working with an old 1950's Scooter, I'd like to install a 175-350cc 4 stroke M/C engine. Since the Scooter has a sheet metal enclosed engine, there are some requirements for a replacement engine. I need to be able to install a partial engine shrouding and fan for cooling. In hopes of not modifying the Scooter's sheet metal for kick starter, I would like to use a electric start engine. Perhaps adapting a existing small engine enclosure and fan to work with the replacement M/C engine might work. If this wasn't enough,:huh I have a NOS Comet clutch I'd like to adapt to the replacement engine and eliminate the gearbox and partial engine casting. I just started looking at older A/C, M/C engines in hopes of finding a suitable donor. Any suggestions, ideas, etc?

Motoretro

hugemoth 09-02-2011 06:16 PM

Need a picture of the scooter.

pennswoodsed 09-03-2011 10:58 AM

visual types here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hugemoth (Post 16773234)
Need a picture of the scooter.

I would guess most of us need a point of reference.:deal

motoretro 09-03-2011 03:43 PM

Unfortunately the camera is down for a while so no pics are available. My key questions are; Can a typical 4 stroke air-cooled engine, single or twin be converted to fan cooled with cylinder shrouding? Can a engine with intregal transmission be converted to CVT/Comet configuration? I have lots of room under the hood.....:wink:

Motoretro

hugemoth 09-03-2011 05:47 PM

The answer to both questions is: Yes, but only with great expense and difficulty.

Nemosengineer 09-03-2011 09:17 PM

Sounds like you should be looking for a snowmobile engine as the CVT is standard for that application. A 800cc two stroke twin could be quite exciting in a scooter chassis...:huh

P B G 09-03-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemosengineer (Post 16779864)
Sounds like you should be looking for a snowmobile engine as the CVT is standard for that application. A 800cc two stroke twin could be quite exciting in a scooter chassis...:huh

The snowmobile clutch is also probably the size of the current engine. The ratios are way different.


I would think that for cooling go to a liquid cooled engine and you can mount the radiator up front.

Many motorcycle engines have transmissions that are integral to the motor. And many scooters have engines that are "layed" over.

motoretro 09-04-2011 06:32 AM

While that would certainly supply enough power, I'm not a fan of 2 strokes. I think a small thumper or twin with 20-25 HP would be more than adequate for this 310lb scooter, perhaps 30HP w/ the CVT set up.

Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemosengineer (Post 16779864)
Sounds like you should be looking for a snowmobile engine as the CVT is standard for that application. A 800cc two stroke twin could be quite exciting in a scooter chassis...:huh


motoretro 09-04-2011 06:46 AM

Size of current engine is 244cc, 2 stroke and sits w/ cylinder vertical. Quite a bit of room under the sheet metal. The leg protection sheet metal up front would hamper installing any type of radiator. I was thinking if I could source a engine with integral gear box which has it's own oil supply, I could eliminate this and reduce the overall physical size of the engine allowing room for CVT set up, etc. If that wasn't feasible I would keep the gearbox as long as I could hook up some type of remote gear change actuation, as I don't want to put any holes in factory sheet metal for shift levers, kick start, etc.

Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by P B G (Post 16779878)
The snowmobile clutch is also probably the size of the current engine. The ratios are way different.


I would think that for cooling go to a liquid cooled engine and you can mount the radiator up front.

Many motorcycle engines have transmissions that are integral to the motor. And many scooters have engines that are "layed" over.


MODNROD 09-04-2011 11:36 AM

Do you have Kwaka Ninja 250 motors plentiful around your place?
Amazing what you can do with an angle grinder (for the gearbox), a puller (to remove the alternator, then make an adaptor for the comet drive sheave), and a welder (to stop it running away in terror from it's new home).

The other option is a complete 160-ish cc scoot motor from Taiwan over Ebay, only 15hp but then you're done.

bk brkr baker 09-04-2011 11:46 AM

http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...97_sJs84-L.jpg


This is a 16 hp V-twin Briggs and Stratton ,electric start and stepless belt transmission installed under the body of a Cushman .

http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...42_JMzrG-L.jpg

This B&S has been warmed over and puts out 25 or so hp now. The bike will go over 80 mph if, you are brave enough.

http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...76_ofvFD-L.jpg

motoretro 09-04-2011 02:08 PM

While they are available, I've not seen anything under $550 US and this does not include carbs, radiator or any electrical.:eek1 Looking at this application and the required components did provide a idea on how to install a L/C engine. The seat on the scoot is huge, I can live w/o this and by using a solo seat, It'll provide a spot to hang a radiator and fan. So at least this is an option although a pricey one. I've seen the Taiwan engines on eBay, definitely a neat workable package although would still need to purchase a carb, build a fan-cooled shroud and devise a remote shifting mechanism. Nothing too difficult although the power is close to original scooter output and I would like something with a bit more.

Thanks,
Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by MODNROD (Post 16782429)
Do you have Kwaka Ninja 250 motors plentiful around your place?
Amazing what you can do with an angle grinder (for the gearbox), a puller (to remove the alternator, then make an adaptor for the comet drive sheave), and a welder (to stop it running away in terror from it's new home).

The other option is a complete 160-ish cc scoot motor from Taiwan over Ebay, only 15hp but then you're done.


motoretro 09-04-2011 02:19 PM

Certainly a neat package, I've looked at the Cushman conversions at shows before in hopes of pulling ideas. Their frame design is quite a bit different as I have rear suspension and twin large upper frame tubes which support the sheet metal and fuel tank so clearance may be an issue. Looks like you're running a jack-shaft set-up, any issues with this? Not sure if this is doable with rear suspension as the swing arm takes up a fair amount of room when moving.:huh HP is perfect for my application though and parts should be easy to get. Does it stay cool with fan/shroud w/o issues when running? Some excellent ideas here.
Thanks,
Motoretro


Quote:

Originally Posted by bk brkr baker (Post 16782485)
http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...97_sJs84-L.jpg


This is a 16 hp V-twin Briggs and Stratton ,electric start and stepless belt transmission installed under the body of a Cushman .

http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...42_JMzrG-L.jpg

This B&S has been warmed over and puts out 25 or so hp now. The bike will go over 80 mph if, you are brave enough.

http://bikebreakerbaker.smugmug.com/...76_ofvFD-L.jpg


bk brkr baker 09-04-2011 04:41 PM

It's not mine .
There's a group of hot- rod guys around here that got into these. Most have the type cushman with the exposed ebgine between your legs.
This one was built by my friend Chatlie with the enclosed style bike. Why ? He found one at a good price and wanted to be different that the rest.
He hasn't experienceed any cooling issues that I know of. But for him this is a toy, no long road trips are taken on it.
The jackshaft set-up has been trouble free. To use it with a swingarm would require stetching the whole package.

MODNROD 09-05-2011 07:39 AM

Here you go mate, more pictures for ideas in one spot than anything else I've found.

Very, very cool stuff here if your into scoots.....
http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk...ge.php?pid=178


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