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-   -   Selling the bike dilemma - BA or Paraguay, and how?? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=763988)

Ruthrad 02-12-2012 02:45 PM

Selling the bike dilemma - BA or Paraguay, and how??
 
Ok, this is all very confusing, I think I read anything the search turns out on this subject both here and on the HUBB, and it's still confusing.

I'm trying to sell a great XR650L in Buenos.. but from what I read it's very difficult, people either don't succeed, or get bad prices etc etc. From what I gather so far I see three options:

1. sell to tourist/foreign passport by POA (local notary) and get new aduana papers by exiting and re-entering. Problem - finding tourist. Solutions?: HUBB,ADV ads? what else?

2.selling to a local for cash - empirically impossible, as no one wants a great bike with no legal papers. I find this VERY strange, there are XR's from 1994 going for 7000$ USD on local boards and no one would buy a 2008 one and solve the problem later? (as locals always can, in many ways, and doubt it would cost more than 100$US). So problem: finding a willing and able local. Solution: local sim-card and local sites? mercadolibre?? Problem number 2 : would I have problems flying out??

3. riding to Paraguay (Asuncion) and sell it there to local shops? Problem: how long would it take once there? is it worth it pricewise? good idea?

4. sell for parts, little money, lot's of heart-ache for the loyal and noble companion.

PLEASE, people who faced this situation and resolved it somehow - share your experience. I have two and half more weeks here and do not want to sell it for parts.

GastonUSAChile 02-12-2012 04:00 PM

I am impressed on how the rate of bikers trying to sell the bikes in L.America has triplicated in the last couple of years. Many think that is practical and easy way toy sell it. Well unless you are doing arrangements way before your trip ends, fine but, while you are there and pressured to sell before you come back is even worst.
Selling in Argentina is not easy today. Bikes must be new and if a local is willing to buy, it would be under the table. (unlawful deal) , exposing you to be banned for life for not closing your Temporary admission.
Selling the bike to a tourist is ok but then USCustoms will notice it at the time of reentry and penalties and duties willl be imposed .

Chile is impossible unless the bike is sold at 'duty free areas' . Bikes should be new for import. Also, Chileans don't have the money to afford big bucks and a complicated negotation, unless you lower a lot the sellling price. Yuo should also close your Temporary admission as the law mandate.

Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay are the only one still allowing used bikes but, then again is the selling price what interest buyers. Forget $7000 for your bike, nobody is going to spent that sum unless is a high end bike over 1000 cc.

I 've just offered a BMW 1200 for $8k bucks in Bolivia and no one was excited. So figure out.

If you have 2 weeks time frame, unless you sell the bike for $3k, probably it would work. Don't waste your time traveling all the way up to Paraguay or Bolivia looking for a buyer, then it will be be even more expensive shipping and flying you out of those countries.

As a final comment , don't play the Cassidi and Sundance way to get rid of things. Assume your export and live with it.
Every time a tourist sell a bike under the table and go away, it is one negative point on that particular country for all other foreign riders, why? because these countries start getting tougher on the law about temporary admission and imports; eventually they could ask even for a bond in the future, and no one want that.

I have seen how lately , some riders wants to sell in Punta Arenas (Free duty in Chile). it is becoming the paradise for many in Patagonia. Nobody knows how the deal is managed but, I think, somehow over the time the law would change and everybody will be affected.

Ruthrad 02-12-2012 09:35 PM

Well, everyone is trying to sell because its a popular trip and because everybody says that "it's not a problem to sell it there" when you prepare for your trip. Of course the reality gets more and more complicated with time. So I guess the right advice would be "It's complicated, and should be arranged ahead of time". But it's all too late for me now.

Also, there is no option of exporting it for me, because my country also accepts only new bikes :)

Thanks for the input, and could you please elaborate on what might be the implication of flying out without solving the customs issue? Banning, seriously? What did you hear about Paraguay, wouldn't it be simpler there? (it looks like a 3 days ride..)

JDowns 02-13-2012 12:12 PM

Hi Ruthrad,

If you scroll down towards the bottom of the page on this ride report link you will see how one person dealt with your dilemma recently:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...es-no-56396-17

The reason nobody talks about how they got rid of their foreign bike in Argentina is because it is illegal. Just like nobody talks about where they stash drugs and money on their bike. Google is not your friend for this kind of information. And no, I don't stash drugs on my bike. I'm not saying where the money is.

I sympathize with your frustration, but rest assured that you will figure things out and it will all work out one way or another. You sound like a bright adventurous sort who is capable of thinking outside the box. Whether you get a police report declaring your bike totalled to get your TVIP cancelled and sell the bike privately to an Argentinian. Or sell it to a foreign traveller with a little help from photoshop. Or ride to Paraguay and sell it cheap. Selling to a foreign tourist will net you the most money. It has to be worth their while so forget about getting top dollar. Believe me, these things all work out in the end. In the mean time I suggest worrying about it obsessively. Just kidding.

Best luck!

Kindest regards,
John Downs

gpothoven 02-13-2012 01:29 PM

Cant a bike be sold between borders? Couldnt you board the ferry to Uruguay exporting the bike from argentina with the buyer, and have the buyer enter Uruguay as the owner, with your registration and sales contract?

Apocalipsis FZR 02-13-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDowns (Post 17978055)
Hi Ruthrad,

. Whether you get a police report declaring your bike totalled to get your TVIP cancelled and sell the bike privately to an Argentinian. Or sell it to a foreign traveller with a little help from photoshop.
Best luck!

Kindest regards,
John Downs


Those are actually the 2 options that you have.
The fisrt one I already done it, twice. But consider that the bike will end up as spares, no way I can ride it legally.
So the selling price is low, or in the best option, far away from what you expect.

The second one I've helped with the contact (the tourist can be from another South American Country).

The only foreigner bikes we can actually ride legally are the one built BEFORE 1989, and its very hard to legalize them....

Sorry...

Ruthrad 02-13-2012 07:00 PM

OK, thanks. After all this advice, the situation seems somewhat clearer.

Airhead Wrangler 02-14-2012 09:33 AM

You could try leaving it with Dakar motos in BA. I think they sell foreign bikes on consignment. I remember when I was there they had a number of foreign bikes for sale.

markharf 02-14-2012 10:40 AM

Dakar Motos has indicated many times in strong terms that they do not and have not been involved in any way in selling bikes, which would be illegal. They do not want people posting to this effect here or elsewhere.

Mark

trailtrick 02-14-2012 05:08 PM

In uruguay you maybe can sale it for parts bikes , probably same price us the same bike in usa 3k to 4k .
iff you interested i can e mail some peaplo to see iff they want it ,other than that is pretty much imposible to register a foregein bike anywere in the mercosur area .
5 years ago i try the see iff i can took som e locals into registred a used bike riding it from usa ,i can do it but was 100% tax +license and the bike has to be in your name for more than a year and cannot sale it for 4 years ,that was in uruguay

trailtrick 02-14-2012 07:37 PM

Send you a pm with a offert from my good friend in uruguay .

Acampao 02-21-2012 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GastonUSAChile (Post 17971751)

I have seen how lately , some riders wants to sell in Punta Arenas (Free duty in Chile). it is becoming the paradise for many in Patagonia. Nobody knows how the deal is managed but, I think, somehow over the time the law would change and everybody will be affected.

Completely legal selling a used bike in Punta Arenas, and not much paperwork involved providing all papers are in order. Have in mind though that it's a relatively small town (150k) and there is not a huge market for used bikes. About a month ago a fellow Advrider sold his 1150GS with 75k miles in some USD7,500.00.-

snohobo 02-26-2012 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acampao (Post 18037132)
Completely legal selling a used bike in Punta Arenas, and not much paperwork involved providing all papers are in order. Have in mind though that it's a relatively small town (150k) and there is not a huge market for used bikes. About a month ago a fellow Advrider sold his 1150GS with 75k miles in some USD7,500.00.-

Heading there in a few days to see if I can drum up some interest for my KTM 690.

Misery Goat 02-27-2012 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler (Post 17985331)
You could try leaving it with Dakar motos in BA. I think they sell foreign bikes on consignment. I remember when I was there they had a number of foreign bikes for sale.

No. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Javier and Sandra are not selling bikes on consignment. In fact, storing bikes has become a hassle for them b/c many folks don't return to collect their bikes which leaves them with a bike they can do fuck all with.


And fwiw, I shipped my KTM 950 back to the states from BA to PHX for less than my own plane ticket cost.

Ruthrad 02-28-2012 11:34 AM

I write this mainly so people who come to similar situations in the future would have more information to act on, and would make better use of their limited time. So feel free to contribute a reply, an opinion, or ask for me to edit something in my post (like a business that doesn't want to be mentioned).

Short version - try to sell in Punta Arenas to a local, if not online to a tourist (Buenos is a comfortable place, but anywhere close to a border would work), if not - Ciudad del Este to locals, surest option (but lower price).

Now for everything I know now on this subject.

Argentina:
1) best option if you find a tourist to sell to (through posting on ADV / HUBB), depends on season (when people start trips), takes time to find (so arrange beforehand), takes some trust. Documents are either photoshoped (US registrations), or transfered legally in US (US title), or transfered by a "poder" (power of attorney) in a local notary. This is the known / popular option. Price range 2500 -3500 $.
2) shitty option - "sell for parts" to local in Buenos or Mar del Plata. 1500$


Paraguay:
It's like Guatemala, but in SA. Just switch back to central america / third world mode, and you'll feel back at home with the people and the traffic.
Coming through the border you are told that you don't need the aduana paper, so basically your bikes in not regirtered anywhere (they just check your ownership papers). You can go back and get it if you ask for it, but it depends on the buyer - if they think they need or not (both in Asuncion and Ciudad del Este the border is very close if you want to go back and get it).

- Asuncion:
First of all, a much cheaper place to stay, not nearly as dangerous as people make it out to be, some parts are pretty western, some nightlife.
But not many cheap places to stay (just three hostels) and parking is difficult. What I found was a very cheap hostel (30000 guarani - 30 arg pesos) on 1422 Paris street (there was no sign, just ring the bell). The owner has a parking space in an underground parking of a building nearby, secure and confortable. Aircon in the rooms and good atmosphere.

The process for legalizing the bike in Paraguay from what I understood is that they buy the bike from you using a local notary (escribania) and than legalize themselves later (that a process called "despachar" and the complexity and cost of it depends on the connections of the buyer, but I kept hearing sums from 1500$ to 3000$, for all I know, they might not be paying anything, and that's just negotiating).

To sell what you do is:
1) go to the bike businesses and offer the bike. They call friends, and than either you'll have someone interested in the bike or not. I was offering for 3000$ and had a few people interested but non that came through quickly enough (one disappeared just before the exchange) before I moved to Ciudad del Este. The bike shops there were recomended to me on the HUBB via messages etc are the following:
- Klein motos, on aviadores del chaco, near chacore street. They seem to be the boutique bike shop of the city with the attitude and prices to match. Weren't very helpful or nice, maybe I came on a bad day. But drop by to see maybe they know somebody who happens to be interested.
- Gotze dealership, on mariscal lopez near the municipalidad . was very helpful despite being busy.
- Motoland, on cedro street between concepcion and patria. a harley shop, but he might know.
- A shop on Francia right after Brazil street.
- Alsina, on Independencia 840 or smth.

2) publish on Clasipar.com (the local craigslist). I tried that twice and my ad got deleted both times. First I thought it was because I only had e-mail there, but than I used a local phone and it still got deleted. I think it's because I wrote that it was "a despachar" meaning it still needs to get legalized.. I don't know really, but the locals all say to publish there. So try that, as it might be a much more efficient way.


- Ciudad del Este:
I read a couple of times that this might the ultimate place to sell quickly, I was told in Asuncion multiple times that I should go there (but be very careful), also a HUBB user and traveler who lives in Foz do Iguazu (the brazilian side of Ciudad del Este) - Rodolfo (on the hubb under "Iguassu falls Quati") contacted me and told me the same thing and even offered his help.

So why Ciudad del Este? many more bike shops, and a lot of trading happening, the pace is quicker and people are more business oriented. It will be harder negociating, but you get answers quickly. I wanted to sell in a day, and it happened to be a saturday (short day), and after a lot of riding around (first alone, and than with Rod) and some luck asking directions from the right people on the street - there was an agreement, and monday we went to the notary and money and bike changed hands.
Money - I was offering it for 3000$ and was bargained down to 2600$ by the buyer only because I didn't want/have more time to spend on the sale even though I had other potential buyers scheduled to see the bike a bit later. I think if I would spend another day or several days it was totally possible to sell it for more, because I think that those people there, pay less for the legalization, if at all.
So basically, bike sold in a day (and a saturday) in Ciudad del Este. I think it's lucky, but also, I think Ciudad del Este is probably the right place to offload a bike quickly for a reasonable price in SA.

If you go to sell in Ciudad del Este, you should stay in Foz do Iguassu (the brazilian side) because it's much safer and cleaner (but EXPENSIVE). Crossing the bridge is not a problem at all (no one ever asks you anything, I crossed it maybe 10 times, with luggase and without).
In any case - if you go there contact Rodolfo ("Iguassu falls Quati" on hubb), he's an incredibly helpful guy, knows the towns, and he told me that he'll be happy to help other moto-travelers as well. Could not thank him enough!
Also, "Vorteks" (from the hubb) helped me a lot with info on Asuncion. Thanks!

Punta Arenas : read several times of people selling bikes there to locals because of different tax laws. Wish I would have known that when I was there. So if you can try and sell there before going north - try that (and write about it).


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