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-   -   New battery - Have I activated it wrong? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843148)

lstehbens 11-22-2012 02:26 PM

New battery - Have I activated it wrong?
 
Hi all,

I'm riding a VTR250 07 model at the moment. The old battery was having trouble starting the bike and I've actually had to roll start it including after buying my new battery yesterday. Just wasn't holding a charge and I assume just a battery problem.

So I went and bought the correct type of battery (12V 6AH) and got a Katana YTX7L-BS battery. Katana seem to be made by Yuasa. The battery only came with instructions for how to add the electrolyte and it's one of those maintenance free ones once its good to go. It didn't come with any instructions for after filling the battery so I made a minor mistake (I hope it's minor).

So I've filled it all right but then I've put the plugs (6) in and pushed them down. However after going online to Yuasa I discovered you're supposed to let it sit for an hour ("so it permeates the plates") without the plugs in. So I managed to get it back open and left it sit for an hour and a bit. The plugs were maybe in for 10-20 minutes at a guess. I'm just wondering if this did any damage because I've been charging the battery overnight with the plugs sitting loosely on top, as said to do so by the Yuasa guide. However the battery charger still hasn't going into auto-float mode and its been almost 12 hours now...

I'm using a CBE battery charger. It's a 3-stage charger but I can't tell what it's putting out. I can't tell if it's a "trickle charger" as referred to in the Yuasa guide, which they recommend you not to use. It says: Input - 240V AC 50Hz ; output 12V DC ; Current max 350mA on the actual charger where you plug it into the wall. There's no settings it just charges and goes into auto-float mode when full.

Links
Battery charger details - http://www.kenma.com.au/12v_battery_charger.html
Yuasa guide - http://www.yuasa.com.au/data/portal/...4454818658.pdf
http://www.yuasa.com.au/data/portal/...4454818674.pdf
Battery link - <cite><cite>http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/search/index.php/batteries/ID-419</cite>
</cite>
Could I have damaged the battery by having the plugs in for this 10-20 mins? Or is my battery just taking longer to charge than expected? Apparently it should be at around 80% after filling with electrolyte so why it's not filling yet is a bit of a mystery. Any advice? Have I stuffed the battery? Any advice appreciated. Thanks, Lee.

Warin 11-22-2012 02:49 PM

Hi,

You can do several things.... many of them will work. :deal

Information A.
Some batteries when flat will not be recognised by those 'intelligent' battery charges. They therefore won't charge them. Solution, place the flat battery in parallel with a good battery and let that sit for say an hour, you could even hook up that battery charger to both batteries. By this stage the 'flat' battery should have sufficient charge for the battery charger to recognise it.

Information B.
A good battery can be flattened over night by an unexpected discharge. In other words your bike can be flattening your battery ... even if the battery is fully charged to start with. You need to do some measurements to determine this. Measure the current out of the battery into the bike when the bike is switched off. Should be less than say 10 milliamp.

Information C.
While you have stated what you have done and with what (all helpful by the way), you have not given us any measurements. What is the battery voltage? When sitting? When connected to your battery charger? What about the 'old' battery - does that still have some voltage?

lstehbens 11-22-2012 02:55 PM

Problem is I don't have a multimeter or anything to measure the battery with.

Should I go riding my pushbike to the local shop to get one? I haven't hooked the new battery up to the bike it's just on cardboard on the ground hooked up to the charger. So my bike can't be flattening it....

opmike 11-22-2012 03:04 PM

I'm pretty sure using a small amperage trickle charge isn't going to cause any problems, and I'm not sure why Yuasa would advise against it. They will take quite some time to be sure, especially if it's a 1.5 amp model or something. The front of my Yuasa says to expect 5-10 hours of charging at low amperage. You didn't let the electrolyte sit in it for the full hour, but I don't think you ruined it. Back when I was still new to bikes, I filled up a couple of batteries and plopped them immediately on the charger not knowing what the hell I was doing. Still got 5+ years out of them. However, you'll need to get some measurements to confirm.

Anyone with a modern motorcycle needs to have a digital multimeter in their toolbox. I'd pick up a decent one (try to find one with a diode test function as well) and check out the voltages on the battery. It's the only way you're going to know its charge level and you can use it to diagnose potential electrical issues with your bike and the charging system.

Also, putting the battery directly on the ground WILL NOT affect it whatsoever unless you're buying batteries made in the 60's.

strongbad 11-22-2012 03:06 PM

A multimeter and battery hygrometer all always handy to have, but your battery is probably fine. In my experience, it takes about a dozen hours for a charger to fully charge a new battery.

lstehbens 11-22-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongbad (Post 20099775)
A multimeter and battery hygrometer all always handy to have, but your battery is probably fine. In my experience, it takes about a dozen hours for a charger to fully charge a new battery.

Yeah well I hooked it up around 7.30pm last night and its still going (8.40am now). Definitely hooked up right as I double checked to make sure I hadn't been dumb. So I'll let it keep going with the plugs on loosely and wait for a result? haha.

I'll check my local supercheap auto store to see what multi-meters they have too so I can give it a test. I can't seem to find any specs to say what amperage this CBE chargers puts out...... is that strange?

opmike 11-22-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstehbens (Post 20099797)
Yeah well I hooked it up around 7.30pm last night and its still going. Definitely hooked up right as I double checked to make sure I hadn't been dumb. So I'll let it keep going with the plugs on loosely and wait for a result? haha.

I'll check my local supercheap auto store to see what multi-meters they have too so I can give it a test. I can't seem to find any specs to say what amperage this CBE chargers puts out...... is that strange?

This was taken from a retailer that sells that CBE charger:

Quote:

The charge rates are specified to 50Ma in full float mode this is to ensure the charger will not "cook" even the smallest electric start MX and Enduro bike batteries, This is something our competitors are still trying to get their head around and the reason CBE does not have enough punch to charge a completely dead battery as our maximum charge rate is 750Ma.
I don't know what the hell unit "Ma" is supposed to be. Amps is supposed to be a capital A and the capital M would denote "mega" and I'm pretty sure this isn't a 50/750 mega-amp charger unless it was designed for the Enterprise.

Looks like you're using a 750 mA (milliamp) or .75 A (amp) charger with a .05 amp float mode. Considering my 1.5 amp takes 8+ hours on new batteries, the thing you're using would take a LONG time if at all. Now, a newly filled battery isn't a "completely dead" battery, but your charger may simply not be able to handle it.

lstehbens 11-22-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opmike (Post 20099831)
This was taken from a retailer that sells that CBE charger:



I don't know what the hell unit "Ma" is supposed to be. Amps is supposed to be a capital A and the capital M would denote "mega" and I'm pretty sure this isn't a 50/750 mega-amp charger unless it was designed for the Enterprise.

Looks like you're using a 750 mA (milliamp) or .75 A (amp) charger with a .05 amp float mode. Considering my 1.5 amp takes 8+ hours on new batteries, the thing you're using would take a LONG time if at all. Now, a newly filled battery isn't a "completely dead" battery, but your charger may simply not be able to handle it.


In my earlier post I said it said "current max 350mA) - would this suggest it is even less (.35 amp?) than what you say above that and I am wasting my time? The lingo on the charger says it wont charge a flat battery, but then this battery is supposed to be around 80% after you put the electrolyte in, suggesting it should be able to do it?

Switchblade315 11-22-2012 03:49 PM

I agree sounds like you have a battery tender type charger. it will probably charge the battery but it might take two days. at this point I'd stick it in the bike and go ride it a few hours tomorrow. i would also invest in a bigger charger for the next time you need it. :lol3

lstehbens 11-22-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opmike (Post 20099768)

Anyone with a modern motorcycle needs to have a digital multimeter in their toolbox. I'd pick up a decent one (try to find one with a diode test function as well) and check out the voltages on the battery. It's the only way you're going to know its charge level and you can use it to diagnose potential electrical issues with your bike and the charging system.

Also, putting the battery directly on the ground WILL NOT affect it whatsoever unless you're buying batteries made in the 60's.

Would something like this be okay? http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/onl...51#Description

Says it has diode test function. What do you use that for? $45 seems reasonable.

opmike 11-22-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstehbens (Post 20099929)
In my earlier post I said it said "current max 350mA) - would this suggest it is even less (.35 amp?) than what you say above that and I am wasting my time? The lingo on the charger says it wont charge a flat battery, but then this battery is supposed to be around 80% after you put the electrolyte in, suggesting it should be able to do it?

Sorry, I must have looked right past that. No, I don't think 350 mA /.35 A is going to be sufficient at all to get the battery charged in a timely manner. I've been using a 1.5 amp charger/tender on my batteries for years. Gets them charged in about 8 hours and then it switches over to a low amperage "float" mode to keep the charge at a sufficient level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstehbens (Post 20099966)
Would something like this be okay? http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/onl...51#Description

Says it has diode test function. What do you use that for? $45 seems reasonable.

The diode test function is used with motorcycles to test the rectifying circuit of a regulator/rectifier. If one is on a its way out, you can use the diode test as part as your troubleshooting in case you run into that issue somewhere down the road. It's good to have and usually don't add much expense to the multimeter. If you're going to have one, might as well have a fully featured unit for your bike. I can't speak to whether than SCA unit is any good or not, never used one.

lstehbens 11-22-2012 04:06 PM

Opmike, because you are so helpful and wise (:1drink) could you recommend me anything from this page?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/onl....aspx?id=70603

If im going to get a multimeter may as well look at a charger as well....... I'm thinking

opmike 11-22-2012 04:20 PM

Well, I can only really recommend what I've used, and the prices in Australia are so high, I'm having a hard time comparison shopping an equivalent to my stuff :rofl

I've had good luck with Schumacher and Battery Tender Jr. chargers/maintainers/trickle chargers/whatever-the-hell-they're-calling-them-these-days.

My multimeter is an Extech.

JerryH 11-22-2012 04:28 PM

I bought one of those fill it yourself batteries once, from Batteries Plus, and they filled and sealed it. I took it home and put it in the bike, and it started up just fine. Then I connected my Battery Tender Jr. to it, and the green light never came on solid, it would flash green is all. The battery lasted a little over a year and failed. I tossed it and got a Westco battery from westcobattery.com, it came already filled and sealed. The green light came on instantly. It's been almost 5 years and the battery is still good.

There are good batteries and there are cheap batteries, but any battery can be defective. I'd take it back where I got it and let them check it out. If they find a problem they will most likely give you a new one.

lstehbens 11-22-2012 04:32 PM

How many amp charger should I be looking for?


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