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Snowhite808 11-25-2012 10:05 AM

Another orange fighter by "Carrot racing team"
Another orange fighter by "Carrot racing team" -
is a blog- type of story of my new bike being overhauled and built to my liking and needs. The need comes from both - the bad situation of the bike in the beginning and my "me-being-me". I just feel that a motorctycle is a very personal item and there should not be 2 that are totally alike. So always, when I get my new bike, I just try to come up with a plan on how to get the thing "look like mine". To make that to an "adventure" bike - at least my opinion is, that it is even more needed work and a "must". With an adventure bike we travel long distances. We haul lot of miles and carry our mobile "home" on it. We have to rely on the bike a lot of the bad situations and maybe even consider the metal mesh our friend (in a situation where the flesh-blood type of ones are nowhere to be found). Whenever a technical question comes up with the bike on the trip - I like to be on top of things. People often ask, why do I do all that stuff to my bike and do I plan on keeping it for the rest of my life????
No, I donīt plan on getting to comfortable with the "metal friend" and I donīt "love" my bikes. Some I really - really like though.
I just like being sure of things. This is why iīm the guy who reads the installation instructions of a device and research on things before buying them and also take my bike totally apart and rebuild whilst giving it a thought all the way - : What can I do better, or make like my own".

Ok - now a little bit of history. For some time I use to ride only suzukis. I had gsxr-s and finally ended up on a DL1000. Except for the fact that these bikes are actually for tarmac only - they can be ridden for long days and hours, they are very reliable and easy to fix and maintain. I did a trip on my K4 1000cc gixxer - around 5k miles on european roads and it was actually just fine. Then decided to go and ride the coast of Black Sea. After reading up on the road conditions and all the rest of it, I considered I needed a new bike for any proper touring. So - there came the DL1000. It was in a crappy stage at the time. Looking nice from the distance but very poorly maintained and having many - many problems that needed my attention before I could have my good and long season on it. (and it was long and good one indeed - other than pierced rear tire and some clutch leak no problemos for 10k miles). It was not that tough terrain that we went on, but it was more, than a DL is made for. If You need some background - here is the trip :

Anyhow - my friend "MUNK" was riding the KTM 950 adventure that trip and other than having something destroy the cooling of the bike - it was pure joy and fun on it for him. So I thought i need something similar.
No, the nine-fiddy was not the only bike on my list. First was actually Yamaha tenere. Second was BMW 650 dakar and third was 640 adv. I almost excluded 950 because of its seat height and weight. because I had only been around the friends bike that is the "S" of ninefiddy. It is way too much for me to log around. Then for whatever reason I had a chance of getting one "normal" model for very good price - but I did not feel like wanting it. So I dumped the idea and went for a search. I tried out all of them others. I even liked the dakar a little but most of them appealed to me the tenere. Good ground clearance - good mileage - good seat and good price. But then came the engine - Iīm coming from bikes that have no problem doing 200mph. Not that it is needed but I like the motorcycle as a fast thing on the road. The barely 35KW of these thumper engined made me sad. So I skipped all the little ones and took the 950 instead.
I had some good weekends on it - wanted to ride before the winter, so I could assess better, what needed changing and what I had liked and not liked about the ride.
So here will be the thread, where I talk about the "Carrot racing team" bike being built and all that makes that a nice adventurer finally.
Here is the "Patient" before we had snow and stuff coming down from the sky and it got mutalized by me.

Snowhite808 11-26-2012 09:20 AM

The beginning
In the beginning there was a bike.
An orange bike. :D

This is the patient before all the work started.
It must be 2 months now, or smth, so Iīll try to remember everything as good as humanly possible.
The last ride with the bike was a long and rainy and cold as hell. Other than having some trouble with the bike starting up weirdly and "coughing" during warm-up, I canīt really remember anything interesting from that ride. But the previous one -now that was made on the back roads and coast of my sommer home and that gave me some good info.

1) The saddle is as bad as it can get - probably something to do with the filling material being warn out or so - but the seat comfort resembled - being raped by an ape.
2) The brakes seem to stick and they stick really hard.
3) The rear brake has no feel and also squeals like a pig.
4) There is a nasty noise coming from the front of the bike as I go over small and abrupt bumps. It is almost like something big and metal is loose in the front (initial guess - the main bearings on the tripleclamps are broken)
5) Heated grips do not work. Something seems to be missing from the unit and the connections donīt look to good either
6) Mirrors - canīt use what You donīt have - huh.
7) No protection for the tanks and the rear of the bike
8) Flapendectomy done but leaves the SAP -crap on. hmm - well that needs sorting
9) The mammoth is a bit on the heavy side - strip the "treehuggers crap" and also get rid of dual exhaust and make it lighter.
10) Service the engine oil.
11) Clean out old crap from engine - check valves and plugs.
12) Protect and clean all the electric work of the bike.
13) Need some proper luggage rack for my military side cases
14) There is no gps mount - there are some holes in the "dash" that might have been there for one in the past.

There was probably something more but this will have to do for a starter.
Here a few pics from the start of the tear down.

And now start with the questions -
Why is there the left side triangular cover of the air filter box with a metal mesh and cutout????
The quality of the job makes it look like almost from the factory - but what is it really???


Masa 11-26-2012 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by Snowhite808 (Post 20120016)
Why is there the left side triangular cover of the air filter box with a metal mesh and cutout????

It's a "Sommer door", supposed to improve throttle response. Dunno if it makes any difference.. Old-timers know more about it.

Snowhite808 11-26-2012 10:58 PM

Sommer door

Originally Posted by Masa (Post 20120941)
It's a "Sommer door", supposed to improve throttle response. Dunno if it makes any difference.. Old-timers know more about it.

Thanks for the quick reply!
I have been reading up on the LC8 for a long time now, but never noticed that mod before.
So - there is no way of telling if mine worked for the better, but the deed is done and if it is proven by Sommer on the dyno - Iīll hope for the best.

gefr 11-26-2012 11:55 PM

Good luck.
I am watching and will chim in when you are dealing with things I also dealt with. Cheers.

skipman 11-27-2012 06:58 AM

left side airbox is throttle cable access.

MotoTex 11-27-2012 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by Masa (Post 20120941)
It's a "Sommer door", supposed to improve throttle response. Dunno if it makes any difference.. Old-timers know more about it.

My 04 came with that mod as well. I taped over it when I did the H2W jetting and pre-filter kit install. (Which was a drastic improvement on my bike's overall performance, highly recommended!)

Over the Texas summer the tape came off and the bike would backfire on decel (a problem that had gone away after install of the H2W kit).

If you go with the pre-filter and jetting kit you might replace the cover, or seal the hole, as it may affect some of the carb circuits by changing reference pressure in the airbox. That's my best, unproven, guess at the relationship between that hole and the decel backfiring.

On another note, should your bike have a Facet fuel pump, or, you find the need to replace the OEM, be sure to get the Facet model that blocks fuel flow when it is shut off. A previous owner of my bike seemingly installed the one that allows fuel to flow through, even when not pumping. This has led to two instances of gravity feeding fuel into the engine when a float valve didn't close. Now, I just turn the petcock off at every stop until I replace the pump.

I'm sure you will get lots of good input from the OC during your makeover. Best wishes for a rapid completion.


Snowhite808 11-27-2012 10:49 AM

Oil spillage in the airbox
Today I had small amount of time on my hands and just hopped through the garage to do this issue.
It is called the oil in the airbox - problem.
Why is this a problem? - Well, for starters, the air filter performance will be enhanced to a point where air has some real trouble finding way to the intake. The front facing carb will be contaminated with dirty oil and it could cause seisures in the fueling system. Up to a certain point the dirtyness of the air-filter-box is the main issue. Then, after some time, the oil drainage will grow to be so big amount that the oil level will start to drop. This is the case of the first bike of the "Carrot racing team". Now in europe the cost of fixing it "half way" will cost You max 20 eur. 2,5 eur for the little seal that needs changing and the cover gasket. The part no are 0760122050 for the little seal and 60030040100 for gasket. The local KTM service suggested, that some engine "silicone" be used when putting back the cover and the cable "shunt" that is located in the corner. Well if You have the new parts at hand already - then the job is no more than 10 minutes and done. Taking everything apart and prying out the little ring took me about 4 minutes, so 10 should be just fine to get it all together again.
Now after reading multiple posts about the job and what causes what - I decided to do the "breather" mod also. I do not have any proper breather at hand, so it will take some time before I can put it all back together again. The idea is, that on the top end of the rubber hose - where it attatches to the airbox - You need to install a little breather filter. There is plenty of room for it up there and it will be safe for everybody. The hole on the air box is to be sealed off properly!!! It is a direct line to the carbs and intake and if You get some dust in it - it wount be pretty.
Here are some pics of the location and they tell the story all the better. I did manage do take off the fuel pump also. It will get the proper treatment and cleaning from inside and I will install a capacitor to it (apparently makes it work a lot longer with less burning of metal).

Here the magneto cover from outside.

Here You can see the old seal still being situated.
Be careful - all the materials are soft and are easily damaged with tools.

And the last pic is from the engine and the flywheel. NOW THIS IS ANOTHER ISSUE TO BE POINTED OUT!!!
There are black bolts holding the wheel. Some users have had trouble with them being loose. Mine were perfectly tight. So i just checked them all. The KTM service also suggested to just check them with wrench and if one was loose or kinda softly installed - then get them all out, one - by - one and put back with the thread glue.
And again, mine were just fine.

Snowhite808 11-28-2012 11:03 AM

Breather, seal and torque...
I had a second from work today and was able to get the parts from KTM.
I talked about getting the breather for the oil engine case and cleaning out the airbox.
Here is a pic of the parts i got from KTM.
Not a pretty sight - gotta say - not a pretty sight at all.

I try not to be to nasty about it - but Iīm not happy with that piece of manufacturing crap that they sell and get produced for the engine. The seal is of so bad materials and quality that there is no wonder it fails often.
Anyhow - the new one got a ton of lube on it and went in with no huss what so ever. Just a little tap with the proper size socket and I changed the other gasket and put it back together. There are 2 sensor wires that run on the lower left side of the cover that really get in the way of business. Had a 5 minute fight with them and then just disconnected and got it sorted.
Case closed - literally.

So further on - the carbs are cleaned and the airbox is washed inside and out and the line connection from the top of the box was removed. I later used it to make the adaptor for the little breater thingamajiggle.
I plugged the hole with a soft rubber cover and glued it on with the engine "silicone". Just like to be shore, it would not get loose and start collecting dirt straight into to the carbs.

Now onwards with the breather. I took the hose and itīs measures yesturday and visited a performance shop that has a lot of breathers on hand. With the adaptor and clamp and breather I would have been set back almost 20 EUR. So I was not happy with the idea. Not that I donīt have the 20 EUR but for these things I will not pay 20. So I decided to use the little breathers from my SAS system leftovers. With less than 2 minutes I had the aluminium tube removed from the airbox and stuck it right into the hose and the little SAP- breather fits snug into the hole on the other end. Just to be sure I glued it with some engine sealant. And voila - this is how it looks.

The whole tube with the new breather fits just snug behind the airbox and between the air intake "peak".

There was some time left, so the fuel pump was removed. Jeesh it was stuck on the rubber mount. Screwdrivers and brute force and some nasty words got it loose. (ish what the austrians probably call "gentle persuasion" or " remove with caution". :D
The hull of the pump is full of burned metal debry and dust and looks like rusted piece of crapens. But the state of the contacts on the pump is not all that bad and Iīll do the capacitor mode on it. proper clean and good seal should keep it all dry and hopefully also working for longer time.

Blackbert 11-28-2012 04:01 PM

Regarding the fuelpump, have a look at the Dr. Bean mod.
No more fried points. Mine (one from his first batch) has 35000km without problems.

Snowhite808 11-30-2012 02:29 AM

Exhaust pipes and such...

Originally Posted by Blackbert (Post 20137308)
Regarding the fuelpump, have a look at the Dr. Bean mod.
No more fried points. Mine (one from his first batch) has 35000km without problems.

Thanks Blackbert for the info.
Will get to that order also. Since there are 2 bikes that need that cure - Iīll make it a list thingy for the springtime. Until then I will get the capacitor mounted and other stuff out the way.

Todayīs topic - Exhaust pipes.
Lot of talks out there about putting on akras and remus etc. I want something different. Problem with me - I donīt like shiny things. The most shiny thing on my motorcycle should be some scratch on the frame. But I got my hands on a very cheap Delcević exhaust pipe, that is made out of SS and polished. For whatever reason - on this bike it kinda seems to fit just right.
Now if one is about to do the SAP removal and Canisterectomy etc - the reason for removing stock exhaust pipes is more than just cosmetic. + You get to save weight. Oh - and did I mention I got the 2-into-1 system :wink:
Here are the pics of the usual ugliness of the old original setup.

And as I was at it, I also removed the rear footpegs that were still holding down some metal pieces. They seem to be the original luggage rack that has been broken off. From the looks of it - the bang must have been really bad, because the hanger of the "H" pipe on the right side was totally broken from the pipe and I got it welded back on with a stronger patch.
Here You can also see that something "weird" had been done to the bolts holding the pegs and the rack pieces. For whatever reason - I took them off and threw away the rubbish that had been damaged in any way.

Moving on with the pipe drama.
Making 2-into-1 requires modifying the H pipe or just simply buying new Y pipe or making one. Since I needed it patched and Iīm not even 100% sure of the system being good, I decided to get the pipe modifyied so that the Y&H pipes would become one. Some money and time later, this is how the stuff looks -

As I said earlier, the hanger for the Y pipe was also beefed up and welded with a patch on it.
Here is a little picture of the Delcević pipe that will be installed. It has the DB killer inserted - and will probably be ridden with it the whole time (my days of needing asloudaspossiblebike are almost over) and it supposes to give so much back pressure that the fuel mixture would not be affected too much from original setup.

I used the original hanger for the exhaust pipe and simply cut it a little shorter to fit the measurements of the new and smaller pipe. Here are the new and improved installations. I donīt know how much the dirty old pipes weigh each, but the new Delc is only 3kg.

So here You go - the new and improved Wrooom.

Now all I need is a fuel pump and new cooland and new oil and new .... blablabla bla .:lol3

And then I can make the first soundcheck!
I kinda promised myself that for christmas I will make the "fat lady sing" but weīll see.

Snowhite808 12-02-2012 07:53 AM

Fuel pump
I was able to remove the fuel pump and take it apart and clean it properly.
I bought the 16V 100mF capacitor and installed it conveniently to the contacts. Now - to test the pump I took the 12V battery from the dremel. BUT THE PUMP WONT START. I open up the pump again check all what I have done and everything seems fine. The pump just pulls once, when I apply the voltage. Is the "clicking" regulated somewhere else ? By a pressure relay???

Snowhite808 12-02-2012 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by Snowhite808 (Post 20161732)
I was able to remove the fuel pump and take it apart and clean it properly.
I bought the 16V 100mF capacitor and installed it conveniently to the contacts. Now - to test the pump I took the 12V battery from the dremel. BUT THE PUMP WONT START. I open up the pump again check all what I have done and everything seems fine. The pump just pulls once, when I apply the voltage. Is the "clicking" regulated somewhere else ? By a pressure relay???

All good - the battery voltage was lower than needed and caused the seisure of the Pump.
Iīll try to get the pump remounted and all should work better now.

Snowhite808 12-09-2012 12:30 PM

SAP removal - flapen-canister - and other "ectomys"
The goal: make it clean under the "bonnet" and remove all the unwanted pieces of hoses and flaps and valves and plastic junk that we donīt really need to be there, to have the bike running normally.
Here is a link to a few good men, who have done a splended job of gathering information to the matter of LC8 and the "stuff that is not needed".
Now - they are talking about the US versions specifically. No big difference - just minor details on the parts maybe and some routing of pipes. Here I give the short version of the SAP removal with pictures and I assure You all, the outcome is very nice. No more flaps - no more canisters and the air intake will be clean and the engine can work without restrictions by the "treehuggers". If someone were to remove the SAP system and leave the stock exhaust on the bike - You would probably get soon the "heat is killing" me feeling from beneath Your bottom. The SAP system helps the CAT-s in the original pipes to reduce exhaust gases that are bad for the environment on one hand and also with that keeps them clean. IE- running the exhaust pipes hot but not burning hot. Remove the SAP and Youīll have to face the inevitable clogging of the KAT elements and the ongoing heat problem. A normal internal combustion engine produces about 50ish percent efficient work and the rest goes to overcome friction and plain simply the heat. If You have stock pipes on - and lets say You are running on 50% of the engine power (35KW) the bike is producing around 10-15KW heat through the pipes. If they have a lot of packpressure and good sealing (like the stock ones) the heat is not given away but stored and it causes problems for You as a rider and the bike, as a machine, that needs cooling. So get rid of them! :D
I got rid of the stock pipes and replaced them with 2-into-1 system and one light Djelcevic pipe on the end.
Now to the SAP removing itself. It consist basically of 3 valves that are operated by electricity, airducts and some small breathers at the end. Where the system is connected to the engine heads, it has some small additional "flaps" . These need to get plugged. Many use the "shields" that are specially made for that, out of aluminum or fabricate these themselves. I just took the damn things off, plugged them properly with heavy duty engine seal and put them back on.
now the vacuum lines - there are many to go around and on the rear side of the engine is a metal mount to what some parts of the SAP is attached to. I remove that alltogether - about 300g of metal junk. There are vacuum ports on the engine that need to be plugged (pef. on the left side of the engine) and the vacuum lines routed on the right hand side of the motor. I used a soft zip -tie to make them hand on the side and then use them - when needed - for the balancing operations.
OK - here are some pictures.

Here is the airbox with carburettors right before removal. The front carb was full of oil and spillage from the breather tube from left side of the engine case.

here the oil spillage clearly visible. The air filter was actually heavy from oil and dripping slightly.

Here the carbs hung, upside down, just to make room for the job. (really no need to remove them completely.
Right on top of the rear spring and slighly to the left is the metal mount for the rear and biggest stuff of SAP.
Threw that just away.

Be careful to cover the engine intakes - stuff can fall in and it is not a pretty sight when metal rumbles around the engine.
I used cleaner caps to prevent that.

Here is the sight from the top of the carb. These pipe ends that (stick out) are connected to the system by air hoses. The carb "caps" will be plugged. I used the heavy duty rubber just to plug them (with engine sealant, just to be sure).

The airbox will have 2 big holes on the sides accordingly.
I used rubber caps to plug them and again with sealant.

Here is one of the valve connector, that I just tied to the cables and kept clean.
On the engine it is the mount for one of the SAP flaps that can be plugged or used some fancy alu cover for it.

Here are the vacuum lines on the right side of the engine. Do not forget to plug them or the bike will have some serious problems running.

And this here, is some of the stuff that got taken off the bike whilst removing the SAP.
Canīt show You pics of the canisterectomy or flapendectomy, because someone already did them.
This crap all together weighs a good 1Kg.

Whilst the engine was so "open" as it was - it was really easy to get the spark plugs out. And Yes, I needed the KTM special tool to get them out. Never-ever had that problem with my toolkit before but the plug tool on the KTM is really thin walled special tool.
The plugs looked bad. So badly warn and damaged in all ways that I have never seen on my bikes before. Probably from the factory and had been running on bad gasoline or whatever. Anyhow - they are cheap and easy to replace and I do it usually every 10thousand Km. I just like to be sure about them.
The normal types are NGK - CR8EK. cost about 5 eur piece.

And this was it for the SAP-removal, where crap was removed, engine bay cleaned and the oil spillage washed.
I had some free time on my hands one night, so I set the fuel pump also back and now it comes the time to test the engine again (still need coolant and oil) and then go further with the electrical problems, that still need sorting....:freaky

Snowhite808 12-17-2012 11:34 AM

Soundtest and christmas
Hello, hello!

So this is, what happened today.
A long time ago I promised myself, that there will be a soundtest of the exhaust system and engine before the year turns to 2013. And so there was. The Djelcevic is pretty loud. Softly and mid to low note loud. Revving the engine it makes for abrupt rawr and then settles right down. All was well with the engine sound and the cooling started working right up - but i got the damn thing leaking oil from the bottom of the clutch cover. So You all know what that means. But it also sort of explaines, why the previous owner had the engine so full of silicone debry and all the seals were really messy and covered with it.
Hope it will be an easy fix and the next test will be a "dry" test :1drink
So - basically - have a nice Christmas everybody and let the new year come with good miles and riding weather, wherever your adventures take You guys/girls...

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