ADVrider

ADVrider (http://www.advrider.com/forums/index.php)
-   Battle scooters (http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=36)
-   -   Vintage Motor Scooter Battery Charging and options (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=848188)

motoretro 12-12-2012 11:58 AM

Vintage Motor Scooter Battery Charging and options
 
Working on trouble shooting a 1950's motor scooter which has a 6V system. I was finally able to locate a 6V, 11AH Battery which fits the factory specifications and bracket. Unfortunately it's the old style non-sealed lead acid battery with filler caps and vent hose. I have a 6V/12V charger/maintainer although don't feel comfortable sticking the battery under the bench with filler caps off allowing fumes to constantly escape during the charging process in my shop.

I was in hopes of finding a sealed unit to avoid this, I did find a 12AH sealed battery which could be installed although the bracket would need to be modified. Oddly enough, all the sealed units I've found in this AH size have what I feel are lightweight spade terminals or a built-in wiring harness with approximately 10 ga. wiring. I'm no electrician although question if the terminals or lighter wiring are sufficient for the scooter's electrical system. The scooter's factory battery cables are very heavy, about 7/8 the size of automobile battery cables.


Has anyone any thoughts on this?
Motoretro

dmn0507 12-12-2012 01:34 PM

I wouldnt mind charging a standard 'flooded' battery with caps off, unless you want to weld or grind stuff while charging it.
Except for the first charge, the vent hose it's enough for a slow charge to top-up the battery, so no need to open caps.

I charge my car batt. with an electronic charger, max output 3.8A and they never bubble.

RVDan 12-12-2012 01:44 PM

I'm constantly charging Rv batteries in my shop at high charge rates, multiple at a time. Not a big deal. They don't constantly offgas as you suggest, and such a small battery will charge fairly quickly, it really won't vent a significant amount.

motoretro 12-12-2012 02:13 PM

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm old school and just purchased my 1st Charger/Maintainer. (6V/12V, 1.5 Amp). I've never used one and really had no idea of how much the battery outgassed when hooked up on a constant basis. I do quite a bit of grinding in the shop along with Mig and Gas welding. This project is just starting so I was apprehensive without additional information.
Motoretro

JAB 12-12-2012 02:17 PM

How much battery do you need? Could you use a "stick" of NiCad's instead of a regular battery? Less weight, space and no out-gassing.

motoretro 12-12-2012 02:36 PM

The original specs call for 6V and 11AH. The Scooter doesn't have a starter motor per se although uses current through generator coils to control cams and contact points along with a reversing switch to cause a rocking type action against compression to pull fuel in and start the engine. Certainly a unusual method and possibly the weak spot of the scooter.

I was in hopes of finding a sealed unit to avoid this, I did find a 12AH sealed battery which could be installed although the bracket would need to be modified. Oddly enough, all the sealed units I've found in this AH size have what I feel are lightweight spade terminals or a built-in wiring harness with approximately 10 ga. wiring. I'm no electrician although question if the terminals or lighter wiring are sufficient for the scooter's electrical system. The scooter's factory original battery cables are very heavy, about 7/8 the size of automobile battery cables.

As far as a stick of Nicads........I'm not sure.

Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by JAB (Post 20234970)
How much battery do you need? Could you use a "stick" of NiCad's instead of a regular battery? Less weight, space and no out-gassing.


JAB 12-12-2012 03:18 PM

What kind of scooter is this? Does the scooter have electric start? If it does, scratch the ni-cads. Does your headlight only run when the engine is running? What is on/working when the key is on/engine off vs. key on/engine on?

H96669 12-12-2012 04:28 PM

Check the specs on your OEM battery cable. Big doesn't mean it has much wire in it. Recently cut into an old one....lots of rubber sheating, not much copper, about 10Ga to my eye.

BTW that type of battery you are contemplating with the wires built in, often used in old 6V BMW motorcycles.

Like this:

http://bmwdean.com/6_Volt_Battery.htm

Fuse it to be on the safe side, altough if you think you may blow the fuse troubleshooting, I'd use something like that:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/COO...-Breaker-6AYJ4

Thread worthless without pics....I want to see the old scooter.:ear

motoretro 12-12-2012 06:34 PM

Maicoletta....250cc 1959. Not really a electric start in the traditional sort of way although uses current to rock the engine. Read my description of method earlier in the thread. I'm just starting to figure all this out will need to get battery wired in to answer all the questions. A lot of my material is in German so I'm basically in the dark until i have juice.
Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by JAB (Post 20235451)
What kind of scooter is this? Does the scooter have electric start? If it does, scratch the ni-cads. Does your headlight only run when the engine is running? What is on/working when the key is on/engine off vs. key on/engine on?


motoretro 12-12-2012 06:42 PM

Thanks very much for the links, Yes, that's the Battery type I was referring to. I have some sections of the battery leads left I believe, I'll cut into it to determine size. I also need to determine the charging capabilities to see if I can install a bit larger unit.
Motoretro




Here's picture of what I'm working with;
http://www.esivart.com/pics/img_m1.jpg



http://http://www.esivart.com/pics/img_m1.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by H96669 (Post 20235971)
Check the specs on your OEM battery cable. Big doesn't mean it has much wire in it. Recently cut into an old one....lots of rubber sheathing, not much copper, about 10Ga to my eye.

BTW that type of battery you are contemplating with the wires built in, often used in old 6V BMW motorcycles.

Like this:

http://bmwdean.com/6_Volt_Battery.htm

Fuse it to be on the safe side, altough if you think you may blow the fuse troubleshooting, I'd use something like that:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/COO...-Breaker-6AYJ4

Thread worthless without pics....I want to see the old scooter.:ear


H96669 12-12-2012 07:42 PM

:clap Left ooops edit, long day...RIGHT click on any pics if they are online somewhere, open "properties" then copy/paste the URL in the window that opens when you click on the yellow mountain/sun icon above. May have to click delete first to get rid of the Http:// thing in the window.

I know what you mean with translating German, often comes out weird with online translations .:eek1 Then I go to my German neighbor, old retired mechanic, good for them technical terms.:wink:

Nice scooter...!:clap Got to wonder now if they looked at some Buicks for the portholes.:wink:

http://www.esivart.com/pics/img_m1.jpg

JAB 12-12-2012 09:56 PM

That's cool! I'm guessing this is the grandfather of Maico motorcycles.

motoretro 12-13-2012 11:28 AM

Thanks for the tip, It worked as you can see.
Motoretro



Quote:

Originally Posted by H96669 (Post 20237226)
:clap Left ooops edit, long day...RIGHT click on any pics if they are online somewhere, open "properties" then copy/paste the URL in the window that opens when you click on the yellow mountain/sun icon above. May have to click delete first to get rid of the Http:// thing in the window.

I know what you mean with translating German, often comes out weird with online translations .:eek1 Then I go to my German neighbor, old retired mechanic, good for them technical terms.:wink:

Nice scooter...!:clap Got to wonder now if they looked at some Buicks for the portholes.:wink:

http://www.esivart.com/pics/img_m1.jpg


motoretro 01-06-2013 10:48 AM

As a bit of a follow-up, Is it normal to have a non-sealed battery with a vent tube sitting under the bench with filler caps off while hooked up to a Tender/Maintainer? I'm concerned I might forget it's there and do a welding/cutting job and blow the place up.:puke1 It seems the Tenders are designed for sealed units...........:norton
Motoretro

redprimo 01-06-2013 12:56 PM

The 6v batteries I get are shipped to me dry and then I add the acid and charge them up. I pull the caps off for the initial charge and after that for maintianance charging I leave the caps on and let it vent through the vent tube. Ive not had any problems doing this, but I also don't have my batteries charging below my welding bench.


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014