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-   -   Is my KH100 possessed by an evil spirit? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854520)

KayAitch 01-10-2013 05:29 AM

Is my KH100 possessed by an evil spirit?
 
I've posted the inane rantings of motorcycle noob here before. Safe to say it didn't got down t0o well so I'll keep this short and sweet.

This is my bike. It's my first. Yes that's an L plate on the back :D.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2jdpfv4.jpg

I got it in a much worse state and it ran but not very well. It didn't have the shiny decals and new paint either. It was a POS but I could see some potential and I like the idea of saving this thing from the junkyard. I also like the way it rides when it doesn't overheat. This is my problem, it goes great until 30 minutes in, gets jerky, loses power and wants to seize.

Things I, or occasionally my mechanic, have done to it thus far:
- New (old) fuel tank cap, fuel tap and hoses. The original tank cap had a venting issue that stopped flow and the tap leaked. All good now.
- Carby cleaned and adjusted. Runs perfectly well until it seems to get too hot... Plug shows a darkish tan. Maybe a bit rich.
- Timing checked. Spot on.
- New battery and rectifier. Charging just fine.
- Oil pump works. It is using oil and within the threshold marked on the pump itself.
- New top end including rings, piston, bearings and gaskets. Re-bored by a reputable firm I am 500ks in. It's been tumultuous.
- Today I de-coked the exhaust with caustic soda and got a heap of shit out of it using a coat hanger. Some jerk in the past decided to spot-weld the baffle in place so I did the best I could. After this it went like a bloody rocket. :D

With the exhaust de-coke I thought I had it solved. It was accelerating much better at lower revs and spinning freely right up there. It sounded better too. It was 33C today and I was riding for about 30 minutes and was sure this had helped the overheating. Until, around the corner from my house it starts getting jerky and wants to stop. I hit the kill switch.

What else do I do? Does the bike need an exorcist?:mad?

The bike starts first kick almost every time. Idles perfectly well forever. Rides really great, today it rode the best it ever has, I smiled when I looked back and saw that perfect little line of two stroke pollution flying out the back :)

Any ideas are most welcome.

buls4evr 01-10-2013 06:50 AM

You did not mention the rust in that 35 yr old fuel tank. Could have rust occasionally blocking fuel flow. If you are in the US then your ethanol fuel is causing water to be formed in that old tank. Once you clean the tank then try some Startron in every tank of fuel. You getting brown crud in the float bowl repeatedly? Have you looked?

KayAitch 01-10-2013 07:19 AM

Thanks for the reply. When I had the tank painted I'm fairly sure they did some kind of acid wash to the inside of the tank to clean it up. I've also been running with an inline fuel filter for a long time now. There is a little bit of rust accumulating in the filter every now and then but only a few specks.

However, I'm intending to lean the needle one notch tomorrow so I will take a look then. To be honest I have had zero interaction with the carb other than having my mech get it set right. I fear the carb. I've been periodically plug chopping to keep an eye on how it looks. At the moment it looks a bit rich.

I do feel that this problem is consistent in its timing. It seems to almost happen around the same time every time I take it out. I read this from here: "Most air leaks draw a very minute amount of air at low engine speeds. In fact it's very common for air leaking engines to start and idle very nicely. However when the engine is brought up to full temperature at higher rpms, the castings will begin to expand and deflect slightly in different directions."

It has made me wonder if it is in air leak that only appears after the engine is well and truly up to temp (the usual 25 minutes) as described.

lnewqban 01-10-2013 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayAitch (Post 20443999)
........
- New top end including rings, piston, bearings and gaskets. Re-bored by a reputable firm I am 500ks in. It's been tumultuous.
- Today I de-coked the exhaust with caustic soda and got a heap of shit out of it using a coat hanger. Some jerk in the past decided to spot-weld the baffle in place so I did the best I could. After this it went like a bloody rocket. :D

What else do I do? Does the bike need an exorcist?:mad?

Any ideas are most welcome.

Either one, or a combination of those things, may be your problem.

If the adjustment between new cylinder and rings is less than adequate, the high friction will overheat the engine, which will increase the friction even more.

If the exhaust is partially clogged, the same bad things will happen.
Chemical cleaning is seldom as effective as mechanical cleaning; I would eliminate those welded spots and dissemble the exhaust pipe for a deep cleaning.

Additional oil and reach mix should improve the overheating in the meanwhile.

There is no mystery or magic on these things. :1drink

YamahaCT3 01-11-2013 05:52 AM

You say you bored it? I'd try a jet then i'd clean the exhaust with some awesome cleaner (dollar general if you got one $1 there) it works great and is non toxic it'll deep clean and finish the job if theres buildup left from before. Btw VERY cool bike!http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...psff0a61fd.jpg Also look at your filter !

buls4evr 01-12-2013 07:37 AM

Sounds like it may be seizing. Did you check piston clearance AND ring end gap? Sounds like it is time to take the top end off again and have a good look for any scuff marks. BTW putting oil in the gas tank is not a good idea. You are actually keeping gas molecules/air mixture from going through the jets properly and actually LEANING your fuel mixture! You should be getting plenty of oil from the autolube system. Do not fix what is not broken.... I doubt it needs a jet change anywhere. More like a good cleaning of what you have in there. Check that float bowl for brown gas yet? How about an air leak where the carb bolts on also... Probably a 40 yr. old rubber boot manifold unless you replaced it.Aren't old bikes fun?:D

YamahaCT3 01-12-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buls4evr (Post 20463764)
Sounds like it may be seizing. Did you check piston clearance AND ring end gap? Sounds like it is time to take the top end off again and have a good look for any scuff marks. BTW putting oil in the gas tank is not a good idea. You are actually keeping gas molecules/air mixture from going through the jets properly and actually LEANING your fuel mixture! You should be getting plenty of oil from the autolube system. Do not fix what is not broken.... I doubt it needs a jet change anywhere. More like a good cleaning of what you have in there. Check that float bowl for brown gas yet? How about an air leak where the carb bolts on also... Probably a 40 yr. old rubber boot manifold unless you replaced it.Aren't old bikes fun?:D

it is a hidden cover carb there is no reed valve boot :)

Twin-shocker 01-12-2013 10:46 AM

Its almost certainly seizing, due either to a poor quality piston, or badly done rebore. Take the cylinder off and have a look.

KayAitch 01-13-2013 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnewqban (Post 20445003)
Either one, or a combination of those things, may be your problem.

If the exhaust is partially clogged, the same bad things will happen.
Chemical cleaning is seldom as effective as mechanical cleaning; I would eliminate those welded spots and dissemble the exhaust pipe for a deep cleaning.
:1drink

I feel I might be getting somewhere with the clogged exhaust. The first time I rode the bike after de-clogging the exhaust chemically and with a coat hanger (I am yet to remove the baffle because it is spot welded in and my hacksaw won't work) I had a hugely noticeable improvement in power and smoothness, though the engine did start to get hot after a while and it was a 33C day.

This makes me think that the exhaust, if not the only part, is a BIG part of this overheating/performance issue.

Today I commuted to my Mum's place, about 25kms across town (a bit of stop-start through the city and some sections at 60-70 km/h and about a 35 minute ride and it ran BEAUTIFULLY the whole way there and back. Admittedly it as a 21C day so much cooler than the other day.

But, this makes me think it possible (hope) it just might solely be the exhaust. It is finally running like a well-tuned machine. This week I'm going to get the baffle out and give it all a good physical clean. My fingers are crossed.

Here's the the little rocket with my house mate Steve.

http://i45.tinypic.com/1zelgzq.jpg

KayAitch 01-13-2013 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamahaCT3 (Post 20453778)
You say you bored it? I'd try a jet then i'd clean the exhaust with some awesome cleaner (dollar general if you got one $1 there) it works great and is non toxic it'll deep clean and finish the job if theres buildup left from before. Btw VERY cool bike! Also look at your filter !

:D There aren't ANY of these bikes around where I live (especially with paint and decals this good) so this little thumper really turns heads. I reckon it's cool too!

Should I have re-jetted the carb after top end rebuild? The bore was from 49.5mm(stock) out to 50.25mm I believe. Bit of a weird jump but the guys that did it, very reputable dudes, sourced all the gear for me and saved me waiting on overseas stock from eBay. About the same price, too.

I'm going to chop into the exhaust this week and get it all cleaned up properly and see if that does it. Ran perfectly in cooler weather today. Touching the cylinder along the way it was running noticeably cooler.

Will check filter too!

KayAitch 01-13-2013 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buls4evr (Post 20463764)
Sounds like it may be seizing. Did you check piston clearance AND ring end gap? Sounds like it is time to take the top end off again and have a good look for any scuff marks. BTW putting oil in the gas tank is not a good idea. You are actually keeping gas molecules/air mixture from going through the jets properly and actually LEANING your fuel mixture! You should be getting plenty of oil from the autolube system. Do not fix what is not broken.... I doubt it needs a jet change anywhere. More like a good cleaning of what you have in there. Check that float bowl for brown gas yet? How about an air leak where the carb bolts on also... Probably a 40 yr. old rubber boot manifold unless you replaced it.Aren't old bikes fun?:D

To be honest I just put the top end together myself without checking these things as I didn't have the gauges :evil. I got the re-bore done by the same guys that sourced me piston, rings, bearings and gaskets, and they only bored after getting the gear in stock and checking for fit.

Also, I had a bit of a head gasket leak about 150kms into running it in (thanks to a dodgy borrowed torque wrench, I believe) and while I had the head off I had a good look for scuffs back then. If piston to cylinder clearance/ring end gap was an issue then would it show early in the running in?

I do understand that extra oil = leaning so I won't do that. Autolube is working fine and the exhausts a nice smelly 2 stroke fragrance. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by buls4evr (Post 20463764)
Aren't old bikes fun?:D

It has become fun in the same way going out with a certifiably insane but really hot girl is. :rofl But also, as a complete noobie it has taught me many things and I'm enjoying learning

D

buls4evr 01-13-2013 06:35 AM

You always have to chk ring end gap when you put fresh rings in as they are usually slightly oversized....So that was likely part of the problem. Next time set the ring sets (both of them) in the bore an inch down from the top. Measure the opening(if there is one). If there is not one carefully file the ends of the ring(and the pin notch too) until you get the correct factory minimum setting. This is done because the rings expand with heat. Yes they will stop the piston from going up/down. They also can break and send a lot of nasty fragments into places you don't like. This was likely a big part of the problem.... A small but very important aspect of a rebuild.

KayAitch 01-13-2013 07:40 AM

Thanks for that buls4ever. I did the top-end after watching videos and reading forums on it and I don't recall coming across this part of the rebuild, which surprises me. I feel a bit foolish now.

You say "likely was part of the problem"... is this something that can correct itself by wear during running in? This not including the potential for scoring on the cylinder wall, and rings breaking and going into the bottom end?

I can't say that the exhaust has fixed it and there isn't other things happening, yet, but do you think I can conclude anything from a 25 kilometre/35 minute run on a 21C day with the bike running sweetly? I figure a longer run in warmer weather might be the truer test?

Toto 01-13-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayAitch (Post 20470903)
I feel I might be getting somewhere with the clogged exhaust. The first time I rode the bike after de-clogging the exhaust chemically and with a coat hanger (I am yet to remove the baffle because it is spot welded in and my hacksaw won't work) I had a hugely noticeable improvement in power and smoothness, though the engine did start to get hot after a while and it was a 33C day.

This makes me think that the exhaust, if not the only part, is a BIG part of this overheating/performance issue.

Today I commuted to my Mum's place, about 25kms across town (a bit of stop-start through the city and some sections at 60-70 km/h and about a 35 minute ride and it ran BEAUTIFULLY the whole way there and back. Admittedly it as a 21C day so much cooler than the other day.

But, this makes me think it possible (hope) it just might solely be the exhaust. It is finally running like a well-tuned machine. This week I'm going to get the baffle out and give it all a good physical clean. My fingers are crossed.

Here's the the little rocket with my house mate Steve.




http://i45.tinypic.com/1zelgzq.jpg

Nice little bike...but it needs a CAT scan to see what's wrong with it.:wink:

buls4evr 01-13-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayAitch (Post 20471671)
Thanks for that buls4ever. I did the top-end after watching videos and reading forums on it and I don't recall coming across this part of the rebuild, which surprises me. I feel a bit foolish now.

You say "likely was part of the problem"... is this something that can correct itself by wear during running in? This not including the potential for scoring on the cylinder wall, and rings breaking and going into the bottom end?

I can't say that the exhaust has fixed it and there isn't other things happening, yet, but do you think I can conclude anything from a 25 kilometre/35 minute run on a 21C day with the bike running sweetly? I figure a longer run in warmer weather might be the truer test?

Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to take the top end off and check out the spec for sure. It COULD clearance itself and they sometimes do:clap........ Or they don't, and the ring ends jam in a port and break:eek1. Be very careful when you take off the rings working them only a little at a time and not TWISTING THEM.


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