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-   -   True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857626)

mikem9 01-22-2013 05:52 PM

True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?
 
Why are true dualsport bikes getting heavier and less powerful over time? "True" being defined as the longer maintenance interval bikes meant for 50/50 type riding vs. the more race oriented bikes that come with tags. It would seem that with technology they would get lighter, stronger and more powerful over time. Has anyone else noticed this?

Here are a few quick comparisons from internet data:

1984 XT 250 wet weight 275 17 hp
2008 XT 250 wet weight 291 22 hp (Note - horsepower is better in newer one for yamaha)
(Note: 2004 XT 225 wet weight 265)

1986 XL600R - 321 Wet Weight. 43 hp
2012 XR650L - 346 Wet Weight 35 hp

XR 250L - 250 dry weight 28 hp (claimed)
CRF250L - 295 dry weight 18 - 22 hp

Note - WR250 R - 295 wet weight, more horsepower - But, still heavy for a 250.

OrangeYZ 01-22-2013 05:58 PM

Emissions.

beemerjim 01-22-2013 06:04 PM

Whadda you talking about. My KLR is the epitome of light & fast. Always was, always will be.

Canuman 01-22-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beemerjim (Post 20552817)
Whadda you talking about. My KLR is the epitome of light & fast. Always was, always will be.

A true race-bred machine, that KLR with lightness and power above all! Paddling mine through UP sugar sand this summer nearly made me take up golf!

RB450 01-22-2013 06:10 PM

What is a "true dualsport"?

KTM's are all plateable and ready to ride on street or dirt right out of the box.

Plenty of horsepower, and light waeight through the range...

mikem9 01-22-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RB450 (Post 20552876)
What is a "true dualsport"?

KTM's are all plateable and ready to ride on street or dirt right out of the box.

Plenty of horsepower, and light waeight through the range...

I have two KTM EXC's - 400 and 450. I think of them as plated race bikes, not true dual sports. I don't mind riding them on street to get to trails once in the mountains, but I don't like the way they feel to go longer distance or a day of just taking backroads. Plus the maintenance intervals are too much to waste that on the street. On my buddies XT 250, or another's XR650L, I'd feel comfortable riding all day on blacktop backroads.

It'sNotTheBike 01-22-2013 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikem9 (Post 20552699)
Why are true dualsport bikes getting heavier and less powerful over time?


KTM 690 Enduro :

315 pounds, 60 horsepower.

I'm not sure I see a huge amount of weight or a lack of power there, to be honest :D

You can say it is not a "true dual sport" because it has a trellis frame and thus
a huge turning circle or that it is a modified supermoto bike ( both claims are true )
but it remains the best dual sport bike for the real world that money can buy in 2013.


So it is difficult to conclude that the world of dual sport bikes has become less wonderful
across the board, though some of the Japanese bikes might indeed be heavy and lack power,
especially compared to the old days when 2-strokes ruled the earth. The Japanese will probably
keep making the same old stuff ( WR250R notwithstanding ) as long as people keep buying it, so
vote with your wallet if you want things to change.



.

Beezer 01-22-2013 07:46 PM

power used to be measured at the crank... not the rear wheel. as for weight... ??? better scales?? fewer lies??? :rofl no, I think you are right about the wt

CJBDRdude 01-22-2013 07:54 PM

Hanging onto my 2000 KTM LC4 640.. a slight bit on the heavy side, but not compared to a Jap counterpart, and more ponies than anyone will ever need!

elsalvadorklr 01-22-2013 07:59 PM

think this for a second

old school is crude, brute power maybe

today or modern bikes are simply more refined and a more complete package...

not in all cases but I can remember some old school bikes that scared the hell out of me when I was a kid

cr250 quads

kx500s

those yamaha its...

etc...even the klrs and drs had more power when they first came out, like someone else said emission and more bean counters

It'sNotTheBike 01-22-2013 07:59 PM

Direct-injection 2 strokes will change everything
 
KTM has them and has been testing such engines for several years.

According to informed sources the engines can meet current emissions
standards.

When street legal bikes with such engines become available, what we expect in terms
of power and weight in a bike will change dramatically.

I can't wait !

elsalvadorklr 01-22-2013 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJBDRdude (Post 20553760)
Hanging onto my 2000 KTM LC4 640.. a slight bit on the heavy side, but not compared to a Jap counterpart, and more ponies than anyone will ever need!

the enduro or adventure model?

Velociraptor 01-22-2013 08:33 PM

My 2009 KTM 690r is the truest dual sport I have ever owned. Does fine on the highway and rips in the dirt. Lots of power. Love it.

Canuman 01-22-2013 09:15 PM

KTM is not the only developer of "green" 2T machines. If they can get off the ground, they will be very exciting indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike (Post 20553798)
KTM has them and has been testing such engines for several years.

According to informed sources the engines can meet current emissions
standards.

When street legal bikes with such engines become available, what we expect in terms
of power and weight in a bike will change dramatically.

I can't wait !


CA Stu 01-22-2013 09:17 PM

Is this premise really accurate?

If it is, I think that the weight / power aspect may be attributed to the fact that the early dual sports were more off-road oriented, with a few owners being silly enough to ride their "enduros" on the road, versus today the dual sport market of motorcycle manufacturers gravitating more towards "Adventure riding", which seems to incorporate far longer highway jaunts to get to the dirt...

Anyway, my 99 KLR is 10 times better both on and off road than my 76 XT500 ever was, and my 07 Super Enduro will rip the lungs out of either of those machines, on or off road, and my 08 TE 610 will leave them both for dead up a rocky / sandy gnarly trail.

I like the way the dual sport market is going.

More choices, more specialization means that a person can find what they think is the ideal dual sport machine for their style of riding.
The potential WR250R buyer won't have the same riding goals as the potential F800GS buyer, and that is good for both the consumer and the manufacturer, I reckon.

Pure numbers alone (neither weight nor peak horsepower) don't mean a whole lot in the real world, I reckon. :D

Thanks
CA Stu

PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time. :thumb


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