[Jurgen]

Originally Posted by Gummee!

My thoughts run in this direction:

He either didn't dope and won (no positives, remember?)

or

He DID do it and did it better and beat em at their own game

Either way, he beat em.

...but he's been retired for how long now? 'Course, since he's back into racing Tri-s, I can sorta-kinda see keeping the investigation going. Kinda sorta. Ya also gotta remember he was kicking ass in tri-s at 16! If he was doping at 16, I'll be really, really surprised.

M

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all pro sports are in a doping era. Baseball may (may?) have backed off a bit, but any highly paid professional sport where one can see real benefit the athletes will dope. Physicians & bio-chemists will assist them.

Cycling has real benefits to doping. Huge. I believe Lance doped, a bunch of smoke there. But I also believe most of the field he was beating doped too. The dopers were (are) ahead of the detectors. Even now they are going after Lance in a "non-anylitic case."

So what? How many of the runner ups have been found to be dopers? How many of the others were or will be analyzed in the same way as Lance is now being accused?

One could read between the lines of the USADA chief's comments when the federal criminal investigation was dropped that this may be coming. But what will they be proving?

Years ago in pole vault they went from bamboo to fiberglass poles. Fiberglass had huge advantages. Records flew up. If you competed with a bamboo pole you would lose. Lance had a fiberglass pole. But so did everyone else in the peleton.


Convince me that the following did NOT dope. You will have a tough time.

Originally Posted by JurgenResearchService

TdF runners up to Lance Armstrong--

1999 (2) Alex Zule-- ("Five Festina riders including Zülle admitted taking EPO.")

2000 (2) Jan Ulrich-- (In February 2012, Ullrich was found guilty of a doping offence by the Court of Arbitration for Sport)

2001 (2) Jan Ulrich -- see above

2002 (2) Joseba Beloki-- (In 2006, he was among those implicated in Operación Puerto, and was withdrawn from the Tour de France. However on July 26, he was cleared by Spanish officials of any wrongdoing"---Jurgen notes also a Festina rider during their big scandal)

2003 (2) Jan Ulrich-- see above

2004 (2) Andreas Kloden-- ("In 2009 allegations emerged claiming that Andreas Klöden used the Freiburg University Clinic for an illegal blood transfusion during the 2006 Tour de France.")

2005 (2) Ivan Basso-- ("In 2007 Basso admitted he was planning to use doping and was suspended for two years."--Jurgen notes third place finisher Ulrich was DQ'd from this race)

Looks like every single runner up is tainted. This isn't something this very casual fan before spending some time with Wiki. How deep into the pack do you need to go before you get away from the odor of taint?

I don't understand what this inquiry will prove at all? It is a waste of time, money and effort.