Originally Posted by Ben Carufel
Those two statements alone pretty much make your "arguments" sound like pointless rambling.
I, for one, think USADA's process was as fair and necessary as it needed to be. I don't mind that it cost $10mil of taxpayer dollars. We waste a BOATLOAD more than that daily in many other ways. I DO NOT think that throwing folks in jail for pot is fair, and that the bogus war on drugs is fair.
By the way, have you pulled your head out of the sand long enough to see all of these other confessed dopers coming out of the woodwork and the major changes happening in cycling as we speak due to this? Do you honestly think any of that would have happened without the USADA doing what they did and releasing the "Reasoned Decision" on LA?
If you think that these guys would have come forth at some point in this kind of numbers on their own accord, you're outta your gourd. There needed to be some provocation -- some jolt -- to shake things up in the peloton and to get people to change their ways. This was that jolt.
Because your hero LA is at the middle of it, though, the entire thing becomes a big bullshit conspiracy for you?
Again, get your head out of the sand and look at the BIG PICTURE of what has been accomplished in the last two weeks alone for cycling. You really think the sport has been totally clean, even recently? Fat chance. I'd say there's a much better chance of cycling getting cleaned up now that all of this dirty laundry is hanging out there for folks to see...and if Pat McQuaid and company at UCI get thrown out in favor of some newer, less corrupt seeming folks, that's even more progress.
to begin with LA is not my hero. but one would have to be blind to not see all the good that he's done. IMHO the reason why a LOT of folks still support LA is our sense of fair play has been violated.
at least we agree on one thing... none of this would have come out without USADA's bullshit tactics. since all of the riders that confessed to the party line. we will not be hearing about all the strong arm tactics used by USADA to force those confessions out of them.
glad to see you are not for the bullshit war on drugs... throwing folks in jail for pot, resulting in a HUGE portion of our jail population. to me what USADA has done is very similar to what the DEA does everyday.
USADA has had zero effect on cleaning up cycling. Nada... nothing... poof ..
what cleaned up cycling is improvements in testing methods and procedures. now top cyclist have to log in on the web to advise tester where they are at any give time. so many misses and you are toast. then factor in improvement in testing for trace amounts. now labs are talking in terms 50 picograms per
milliliter (or 0,000 000 000 05 grams per ml). (picograms
- per-liter = parts
-quadrillion). which the Contador case illustrated perfectly.
again... USADA has NOTHING to do with cleaning up cycling. so they've got to nail down a high profile person like LA to justify their existence. like it or not those are facts!
from another adv thread... could not have type it out better!!
Originally Posted by allan16
The problem is more about the process than LA.
USADA has no authority over anything.
They tried to make a criminal case of it and were thrown out of court.
It was ancient history. In a foreign country. Exceeding USADA's own statute of limitations.
Affidavits were collected under threat of harassment.
LA was told: agree to arbitration or we'll ruin you.
Sanctioning bodies for cycling and TDF (of which USADA is not involved) had poor testing procedures. They have improved greatly and the sport is now virtually dope free. USADA had nothing to do with this.
The "to dope or not to dope" is an issue that has come and gone in professional and amateur sports.
The procedure and process USADA has chosen to pursue is an inquisition, not an investigation, as no laws were broken. Why do we have a federally funded agency investigating things which are not illegal, with zero authority yet seemingly unlimited power ?
How far back do you want to go ? How wide do you want to make this ?
How does a US agency, USADA, "strip" Armstrong of his titles ? They didn't give out the titles. In fact, they have nothing to do with the sanctioning of sport. What gives them the right, or power, to strip anyone of anything ? And where do their findings go ? They certainly have no supervision. They are investigating things that are not illegal, so after years of investigation, what do they do ? Hold they're own hearings ?
Who are they to declare person X did something wrong and should be crucified?
If they conducted an investigation, should their findings not be turned over to the sport sanctioning body and let them decide to pursue it or not ?
Especially concerning something in a foreign country.
Should we have a whole series of federal watchdog panels, funded by tax payers but answerable to no one, to investigate all sorts of things they think are a wrong ?
Please keep in mind the guy who did this is a former prosecutor who said he was on a "mission".
I suppose anyone with enough money can assemble a series of investigators and attorneys to expose the evil deeds of anyone they choose.
Sounds like a growth industry: inquisitor generals and kangaroo courts.