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Old 12-13-2012, 11:24 AM   #280
_cy_ OP
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by LexLeroy View Post
Are you aware of any impact to either EarthX or Antigravity? It would appear to be a set-back if either or both are reduced to sourcing their cells from China.
no clue, but note some of A123's existing plants are already in eastern countries.

don't have a problem with lithium cells coming from China as there are only a tiny number of actual lithium battery mfg out there. most battery brands are private labels.

what I've got a problem with is giving away our technologies paid for by US tax payer $$$.

true story... back when li-ion (lithium cobalt) battery use was in it's infancy. (A123 was just getting started) I was part of the initial Candlepower forums groupbuy by JSBurley for what was the next breakthrough, paradigm shift for li-ion batteries.

what I'm referring to is technoloy integrating a BMS internal to li-ion cell. the protected R123 li-ion cell. flasholics or flashlight nuts were tired of paying $$$ for CR123 used in high tech flashlights. we all wanted a rechargeable for primary lithium CR123 batteries.

but back then it was all but impossible to purchase individual li-ion cells. battery mfg's correct fear of unstable lithium cobalt chemistry combined with lawyers = non-access of li-ion cells to general public. unless one could prove they were a legit OEM with ability to install a BMS in end battery packs, along with a specific to that pack li-ion charger.

back then and now .. Candlepower forums was on the bleeding edge in for technologies related to flashlights.

concept of integrating protection circuits or BMS into a R123 li-ion cell was hatched on CPF. JSBurely believed in the project so much that he hocked his house to fund the project.

what happened next was JSBurey paid for initial tooling rampup to a Chinese mfg to make the world first protected li-ion cell. the protected R123.

JSBurley was sweating bullets to deliver, as he had taken $$$ in groupbuy monies from folks on CPF.

finally ... after many runs that didn't work... JSBurley delivered to groupbuy folks the world's first protected R123 battery.

yes it worked... but just barely. amp hour capacity was probably about 100 milliamp hour or less. but it did work. so JSBurley still didn't have a commercial success on his hands.

what happened next was the sad part... the Chinese battery mfg then took the technologies paid for by JSBurley and ran with it.

the rest is history as consumer use of individual li-ion cells exploded (yes there were explosions) and became commonplace. since the Chinese don't always honor technical property rights. JSBurley got zip..nada ... nothing for his investments. He went broke and lost his house over it.

this is why .. I'm so against the giveaway of A123's technologies which in a HUGE part was paid for by US taxpayers.
for all we know technologies for the next paradigm shift for batteries is contained within A123's knowledge base. IMHO it's criminal to give that away to another country.

like it or not battery technologies are strategic assets that could impact our country in ways not yet apparent. The Chinese recognize this and are willing to plow LOTS of $$$ chasing it. note the same buyer was ready to pay $460 million earlier, but A123 backed out. yet at auction they paid about 1/2 that... a true bargain for the successful bidder. We need to stop this giveaway!!!

despite li-ion technologies originating from USA. America's markets share represented by A123 is a tiny 1%.
Source: CGGC, based on(METI, 2010; NEDO, 2009)

_cy_ screwed with this post 12-26-2012 at 02:56 AM
_cy_ is offline   Reply With Quote