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Old 12-25-2012, 08:37 AM   #276
Kerfuffle
Mostly Harmless
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: TX
Oddometer: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
You are pretty far out of touch in regards to the business.

Sports cars typically have a 5 year shelf life before buyers move on to whatever is newer and better. The S2000 was sold for 8 years if I remember correctly. With the increasingly tough safety standards it would have needed a total redesign, and there was enough of a business case for building today, they would.

NSX; same thing, it sold for almost 15 years, and when it was time to decide to build a new one the recession hit.

Civic Si; in its most recent redesign it lost 50 pounds, and gained about 40 ft.lbs of torque, along with 7 or 8 hp.


CRX? There is no such thing. The CRZ is NOT a CRX. How many other successful low priced 2 seaters are available today other than the Miata?
Never said I was in touch with the business. Just the cars, which Honda doesn't appear to be.

How hard would it have been to update the S2000 and build a AP3 version? Honda refreshes every other model every 4 years or so. They can make cars competitive with others in their market segment - that is what made Honda great. Your comment about sports cars having a 5 year shelf life is exactly my point - Honda decided it was better to kill the S2000 than update it.

As for the NSX, clearly, there is no market for such a car. That's why there's the GT-R, right? And the 911? And the Z06 and ZR1? And the M3? And the R8 and RS5? Go to your local track day and count the GT-Rs you see. I always see tons of them, maybe a third of the cars there. I have to smile when I see the occasional NSX, and then want to cry for what could have been.

I will grant you the specs of the SI are better than the previous version. Its up to 200 Hp and down to 2950 lb. That puts it in the same power/weight of the GTI, which is a great car but not exactly a rocket ship. And I haven't driven it, so I can't comment on the handling balance. But its well behind other hot hatches (Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST) in terms of power. And where is the hatchback version? Ford is selling hot hatches in the US, but not Honda?

And the CRZ could have been a new CRX, but it wasn't. As far as what they could have built, witness the BRZ/FRS Toybaru twins. Yes, it technically has a back seat, but only for those without legs. And the "old" Honda wasn't concerned with building only what everyone else did, or you'd never have the CRX, NSX, groundbreaking 3rd gen Civic, etc.

You can point to the recession, market demand, whatever, but Honda has chosen to make cars that are, for the most part, boring. Nobody made them do this. Mazda stuck with the Miata through the Carpocalypse despite tough sales (they had $5000 incentives on them at one point). Nissan continued with the GT-R. Porsche revamped the Boxter. Toyota and Subaru made the BRZ/FRS. The Focus and Fiesta STs are coming to the US. The M3 lives on. The RS5 returns. The C7 is due out soon. The best that Honda can give us is a 200Hp, 2950lb FWD Civic SI?
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