Originally Posted by DAKEZ
The number one single vehicle accident for all new and returning riders is blowing a corner because they "think" they are going too fast.
Anyone saying that teaching countersteering to these people is wrong is a Selfish ass and should
before their words of wisdom gets some n00b hurt or killed.
Big difference between teaching countersteering and teaching countersteering science.
If I'm teaching someone countersteering I'm telling them exactly what you did in that one quote. Then we're going out and going to do so. One great method of practice is slaloming down the dotted centerline of a road. You aren't studying the science, you are doing. It's easy to describe and be an expert in the science, yet not know how to do it unless you simply do it. When they can do a weave like that intentionally at say 50 mph they're not thinking out every single move, they're just doing it. With that skill development they will have the capability to swerve with minimal thought time. It will just happen because the part of their brain that controls the actions knows how to do so without reasoning it out. (I.e., someone throws something at your head, you duck. You don't wait to analyze how to move your head, you learned that when young and throwing stuff at each other. You instinctively know if it hits you it might hurt you, so you duck.)
Again, the OP has countersteering experience, they can do it. Why make it a cluster with all the science if all it does is interfere? That seems to be the issue. When someone says they know they don't steer the motorcycle they're baffled with the BS (bike science). They just need to continue to do what they did on their bicycle.
I'm betting a lot of people perform a lot of actions like surfing, skiing, even running without knowing all the science of their actions. They simply learned how to do and continued to do. Can any of you describe the science of walking or running? Yet most here can both walk and run - once they learned and practiced. By the way, due to an injury I got to learn it all over again. Still can't tell you all that is involved from the science and all but I can walk fairly well and run to an extent.
I understand the whole accident thing where people react incorrectly. I'm betting very few of them were very aggressive riders in general they never actually learned how to act instinctively (or nearly so). They never learned to "bob and weave" to borrow a boxing term. That is one of the draw backs so many riders DON'T ever really learn to ride by pushing the envelope in a relatively safe progressive manner, then when they need the skill it isn't there. That is why there are performance riding schools put on by professionals who have previously taught racing skills, to give riders some performance skills on their custom/cruiser/tourer. Like when in a corner and in doubt - LEAN OVER FURTHER. Of course that also involves knowing your bike's clearance limits. Even the best roadracer can't easily overcome grounding out the frame. Another skill is that you CAN take a road bike off road (through a yard) if that is a viable excape route. But that one is really hard to teach, takes a bit of off road riding to understand. And yes, I have had my road bike off road for one reason or another. The other options were "layin' 'er down". Going into the grass didn't tear up my bike or my passenger, it got us slow enough to get back on the road. (Lane we were in was an unmarked turn lane that ended at the intersection, nice.)
Just saying that no matter how much science you teach, there is no substitute for going out and performing. Any doctor of physics can tell you all about countersteering and all the forces involved. If they've never ridden a motorcycle they'd be hard pressed to perform in a bind if they could even ride in the first place without a bunch of training.