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Old 02-04-2013, 01:49 AM   #6863
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So now I think I understand Via Points vs. Shaping points in Basecamp but what about after Routes are transferred onto the Montana? I'm still confused...

Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
Here's another post from the BaseCamp forum, including response from a Developer.

I tried using shaping points in BaseCamp (won't alert, grayed out), but when I transfer the route to my Montana, while the route is as I created it, it is full of Via Points.
After a route is on a Montana, how can you tell if you have Shaping Points on it or Via Points? I mean earlier I showed the GPX file indicates a distinction between the 2, and I know we are not transferring a GPX file itself, but still it is a clue as to what Basecamp is spitting out. But actually it has nothing to do with what gets onto a Montana so...

But just looking at a route on the Montana, if we have deliberately made all but the Start and Finish points actually be Shaping points, how can you SEE on the Montana what they became instead? What are you looking at on the Montana?

Originally Posted by dlh62c View Post
Not all gps support non announcement of shaping points. Im not sure about the Montana.
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
The Montana does support non announcements of points.
What else does the Montana not support for Shaping Points (more than just non-announcement)?

Originally Posted by Rocky TFS View Post
Originally Posted by dlh62c View Post
... The route with 51 via-points will load, the route with 52 will not. The routes were made using Basecamp. The routes should be the same except for one via-point being added. Keep in mind, the effort was some what rushed. The route via-point details can be seen in the route property window in BC

The points were added using the route 'Insert' tool. So by most people's definition, these would be considered route shaping points. IMO any point used to tailor a route is considered a via-point. It could be a point placed on a road as a shaping point or a series of way-points strung together or a combination of both.

No, this is not correct. Re-read post #6802 above. Shaping points, when supported by the device, are NOT part of the allowable total of 51 via points; you can have hundreds. Waypoints or POI's used as points ARE subject to the 51 point limit.
Um Rocky (not daryl, sorry), where exacly does someome (or Garmin) say that Shaping points are not part of the allowable total of 51 via points. For that matter where are we getting the 51 via point limitation from - experiments like dlh62's files? Do you make any claims about how many shaping points the Montana supports for routing? And others claim 250 max shaping points but what does that mean? Because our experiments show over 50 shaping points will then not allow you to press GO to navigate that route!

And dlh62c you claim 51 points will allow you to "GO" and navigate the route, so is this in non-Direct mode, if so I agree. But if in Direct mode I claim the max points you can use to navigate is 50 (below).

Originally Posted by Bill Murray View Post
When the 80 point direct route was initially selected using the "Where To" menu, it initially displayed all 80 points and all the direct line segments between those 80 points (along with the "Go" button).
Immediately selecting the "Go" button resulted in a message being shown that states "Only 50 points can be used for follow road navigation."
To summarize, direct profile routes exceeding 51 points (which on the Montana includes via points, waypoints, and points of interest) can be used when transferred to the Montana, but these routes will be truncated to use only the first 51 points.
Thanks Bill this is very useful... However these 2 statements seem to contradict each other. If you have over 50 points in Direct route you may see the first 50 or so on the map, but it will never be able to hit GO and navigate with a route over 50 points in it, isn't this correct?

Also, when you say Via Points... are any of your points Shaping points or all they all Waypoints or what?

Ok I too did some experiments, with CNNANT on both BaseCamp and the Montana. I have the Montana setup to Automobile Driving for Setup->Routing->Activity FOR ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION:

1. If I made a Route with 58 Via Points including 2 Waypoints (Start and Finish) and 56 Shaping Points (per my definition in my previous post). I could then save it in Motorcycling activity profile and in Direct profile and transfer these 2 routes to my Montana.
- Neither the 58 point Motorcycling or 58 point Direct routes would even open the map up, it just stayed on the page with the list of route names and with the selected route highlighted and just stay there until I tapped the exit button.

2. Next I tried 51 total Via Points (49 shaping + 2 waypoints) and save both Motorcycling and Direct routes:
- The Motorcycling route would display the map, present the Go button and when pressing it then it would show the route properly with all 51 points (49 were little blue pins).
- The Direct route would display the map, present the Go button and when pressing it, then it would give the error "Only 50 points can be used for follow road navigation".

3. Finally I deleted 1 shaping point so I have 50 total Via Points (48 shaping + 2 waypoints) and both the Motorcycling and Direct routes would be able to GO properly.

There is another clue here that someone can explain. Even though for my final case of 50 points, if you look at the Properties in Basecamp it shows 2 numbers at the Summary at the top: Points and Via Points.
Now on a Direct profile they are both the same (50 Via Points and 50 Points), but on the Motorcycling profile the Via Points is still 50 but the Points is 109. I can only assume the algorithm has inserted its own extra points to route it onto actual roads per the mapset.
Here's an example of case 3 (50 Via Points total). So what does this mean and how doe it impact how it works on the Montana?
UPDATE 1: My conclusion is that in Basecamp when you use anything BUT Direct profile then it needs to autoroute and find data points from the mapset you select in order to find roads to turn onto which are then inserted as hidden extra "points" so the item called "Points" in the Properties at the top is now including these extra hidden points. But this is just in Basecamp and when on the Montana only the "input" 50 Via Points are used for its autorouting algorithm (when its Routing Activity is anything BUT Direct).

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snooker screwed with this post 02-09-2013 at 11:38 PM
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