06-20-2013, 10:23 PM
Outside the Pod-bay
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Just off the Warrego, S.E. Queensland
Originally Posted by farmerstu
perhaps an inmate would care to try this experiment i just thought up and report back.
rig a steering stop so the bars will not turn past dead straight in one direction. lets say can turn left only.
next put an electronic protractor on the bike to determine true vertical
have a helper hold the bike true vertical while the rider gets moving.
rider attempts left turn
report back with results
Something quite similar-
No B.S. Machine
The Correct Brothers
It shouldn't be alarming to me that riders still question how to steer their motorcycles but it is. Apparently, even after 90 years when it was first observed by the Wright brothers some confusion remains on this subject . Yes, their first engineering attempts were as bicycle manufacturers. The very observant brothers, determined that tandem-wheeled (one wheel in front of the other) vehicles countersteer. That was and still is correct.
Make a bike that has two sets of bars. One set as normal, the other set would be solid-mounted to the frame so they were not connected to and did not rotate the forks. This, as my theory went, would answer the question. And it does.
Before I go any further I want to address off-road motorcycles. An off-road motorcycle will easily steer by pressing down on the inside peg, and in conjunction with shifting the upper body mass, will go over pretty easily . Still not what I would call good control but it can be done fairly efficiently.
Again, I am not a true tech guy, but it occurs to me that the small contact patch on knobbies or dual sport tires plus dirt bike steering geometry (which is not intended to provide an enormous amount of stability at speed) contribute to the reasons why steering results from weight shifts to the degree it does on a dirt bike.
At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double-barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one in the actuality of countersteering of course. Even at speeds of no more than 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not. Could you avoid something in your path? No Way. Could anyone quick turn the bike? Hopeless! The best result was one of my riding coaches. He got into a full hang-off position and was able to persuade the bike, by jerking on it, to start on a wide, wide arc in the paddock at Laguna Seca, a piece of asphalt that is about 500 X 800 feet. Like turning an oil tanker ship, start at noon and be on the turning arc at around 1:00 PM. It wasn't smooth and it wasn't very effective.
We now call this bike "The NO BS Bike". There are no doubts in anyone's mind after they ride it that they have been countersteering all along. No doubts.
You can hear riders who believed in the body steering method, laughing in their helmets at 100 yards away, once they get those solid-mounted bars in their hands and try to body steer the bike. They just shake their heads. No B.S.
'77 BMW R100RS with Ural chair
'08 Suzuki AN650A Burgman (and trailer)