The Yamaha Super Tenere XT1200Z Big Thread

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Hmmmmm... Well, lets see...

Yamaha says the S-10 weighs 575 lbs, IIRC. They say that's "wet weight", but we don't if that means with just fork oil, coolant, engine oil, etc, or also includes fuel... And if so, how much fuel? Half a tank? Full?

But lets just say that's with half a tank of fuel (3 gallons, which since gasoline weighs about 6 lbs a gallon would be about 18 lbs of that 575), what else do we have to add to get it rolling on the road? The rider, of course, and you suggested one that weighs 160 lbs. So what we have right there is 575 + 160 = 735 lbs, depending of course on whether you just had lunch or not, and what it was.

Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if you change mufflers, and the new, trick one weighs... hmmmm... lets say 7.35 lbs less than the stocker, you are only saving 1% of the total vehicle weight. Logic might suggest your rate of acceleration would be improved by 1%, but that's not necessarily the case. In fact, if you were to do a number of back-to-back comparisons I honestly doubt if you could get any measurable, consistent improvement (providing the power remained the same).

And let's not forget that if you fill that tank up to full, adding another 3 gallons, you just not only negated that weight loss of the pipe, but added some more weight, high up, as well. And needless to say, the bigger the rider the less percentage weight loss you get by changing pipes. For instance, a 300 lbs rider on a 575 lbs S-10 would only get a 0.84% improvement. Add some hard bags, a skid plate, crash bars, a tank bag, tail pack, and some gear packed in the bags, etc. and percentage becomes even more and more negligible.

As for the aforementioned MotoGP reference... It's been proven time and time again that having a lighter rider is not necessarily an advantage, but instead a compromise. A lighter rider may get advantages in acceleration, braking, and maybe even in tire wear, but he also is usually not as strong physically as larger riders, and as such probably has to expend more energy to alter the bikes path in numerous situations. He also has to lean the bike over farther to achieve the same corner arc at any given speed.

If you look close in the premier classes (Superbike, 500 GP, and MotoGP) over the years you will see that more often than not it is the relatively average sized riders that prevail with championships... Perhaps because, as with most things, they are the best compromise in the largest performance envelope.

Again, just my two cents... YMMV.

Dallara



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I knew you would have a good answer, thanks

So basically the next guy I hear saying I just saved 10 pounds on my exhaust and my bike feels so much lighter and faster

I'm just going to smile and say, cool, my bike will be right behind yours

unless he is riding a little scooter and just saved 50% of the weight in any case I will be way in front of him

True fellas, take it from a guy who changes the cans on every bike I've owned. Your only doing it for the music and the visual. The ass dyno will never feel a hp increase or weight difference. Certainly not on a bike a big as the S10.
My experience anyway

I heard somewhere that losing 7lbs = 1hp gain. Not sure if it's true, but I heard it when I was RR at Loudon, NH.

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In what aerodynamic configuration? Truck? Car? Cruiser? Naked bike? Road racer? LSR vehicle?

Aero drag increases with velocity, so you can't just come up with a LBS = HP equation.

Let's not forget, too... That horsepower actually doesn't exist, but is actually only a mathematical construct attempting to equate the ability of the engine to do work over a period of time...


Torque X RPM = HP
5252

(torque times rpm, divided by 5252, equals hp)

BTW, that's why on a dyno chart the HP and Torque curves always cross at 5252 RPM, and why with engines that don't rev as high as 5252 the curves never cross.

You can directly measure torque, though the methods differ. That's one reason why different type dynos (accelerometers, water-brakes, etc.) produce such different results.

Just FYI...

Dallara



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Dallara, I'm in agreement with the gist of your argument (that the small weight saving swapping mufflers probably isn't noticeable), but you can only carry this sort of argument so far. There are differences in how weight is carried on motorcycle - dead weight on the bike vs. rider weight, unsprung vs. sprung, location, etc.

As an extreme example, almost any bicyclist can tell a BIG difference in riding a 17-lb bike vs. a 22-lb bike even though the 5-lb difference is only 2% or so of the total vehicle weight with rider. It's the reason some spend almost insane amounts of money to buy bicycle parts that are a few grams lighter.

In the end, there is no weight that "doesn't matter" - it all matters, just to varying degrees. I wouldn't spend $500 extra for a pipe to save 3-lbs of weight, but OTOH, the weight savings are enough that I think it is a benefit I'd consider in the overall picture. In the end, no single thing on our machines is all-important by itself, but significant weight reductions are made by lots of little weight reductions.

And just to let everyone know where I'm coming from, I'm likely leaving my S10 exhaust system dead stock and it has nothing to do with weight. I like quiet, I like what cats do for emissions control, I like not worrying about any warranty issues, and I'm cheap and don't like spending ridiculous amounts of money for what I view as one of the least cost-effective performance modifications you can make to a motorcycle.

- Mark

Link thread is your friend.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630631

Where you will find
Actual Measured weights of a the XT1200, GS, GSA, KTM990

Hmmmmm... Well, lets see...
S10 268Kg measured, stock full of fuel.
GSA Actual weight: Fully fueled: 273kg's
GS Actual weight: Fully fueled: 242kg's
KTM 990 Adv Actual weight (Wet): 240kg's

All on the same set of scales.

Cheers
Graham

thank you. with the help of google indexing this pic should be helpful long into the future.

I recently had the oportunity to check out a Hepco Becker Gobi topcase, and my XL Arai would not fit. you couldn't close the lid.

givi trakker top case

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But no bicyclist I know of makes 100+ HP...

A healthy human can produce about 1.2 HP briefly, and sustain about 0.1 HP (http://www.web-cars.com/math/horsepower.html), while the best athletes can make up to 2.5 HP briefly, and sustain 0.3 HP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower). A human can actually produce a pretty prodigious amount of torque, but again only briefly, and that human can't rev very high, either.

Needless to say, a 2% difference in weight to something producing only 0.1 to 2.5 HP is much more noticeable than a 1% difference to something producing 100+ HP...

I understand your point, Mark... But it's really apples to oranges. The Super Tenere was never intended to be a lightweight sports bike or racer, and you can experience the same performance "increase" on it due to the weight loss you get with an aftermarket pipe by simply not filling up the fuel tank the last gallon or so. No doubt one could start making magnesium, titanium, carbon fiber, etc. bits to sprinkle all over it, drill some holes, cut some brackets off, buy a lightweight battery, etc. for a Super Tenere and maybe drop 20, 30, maybe even 50 lbs, but in the end you'd still have a bike that weighed over 525 lbs and you would have spent a fortune...

And the performance gain would not justify the cost, at least in my book. Of course, YMMV.

Might even be less expensive to just buy a cheap, used sport bike for those days you wanted to strafe apexes and play road racer, *AND* a cheap, used dirt bike for bashing through the whoops and playing MX'er.

Dallara



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..or..

Supercharge the S10 and buy lots of pies and wine.


Just a thought..

Not a bad thought either. I would prefer eating pies than worrying about 0.5 seconds off the quarter. Just means I get to the pies 30 seconds later.

Anyway, I can see 20 years of RRRace bike marketing has taken it's toll. (and maybe lack of S10's leading to over-hypothesizing)

It's about the journey grasshoppers. I thought that's what ADV touring was about.

Cheers
Graham

Weight and speed and all the other stuff is essentially

I have always changed my pipes 'cause I thought they sounded better. Sort of an aural salve for my soul. (Not too loud....:ddog)

Now, that being said, I ALWAYS justified it with the aforementioned weight savings and (theoretical) HP increase....

Lets face it, we're all essentially little kids when it comes to bikes...

Sounds cool? I'm IN!!!

Wasn't someone talking about the battery weighing 40lbs or something 4,000 posts earlier and how we could buy a lighter battery? If we shed the pipe, the battery, the massive forks, the seat, the swing arm, the dual front discs, make the tank smaller, drop panniers, top box, pillion, heck, drop the rider, I bet we can drop 250lbs! Oh wait, we then have no awesome bike
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BTW, the S10 is plenty loud with the stock pipe, the bike roars. Sitting at idle next to another bike we cannot hear each other talk, that is plenty loud. <o></o>

Well - got to say, the black looks fantastic.

Roll on 9am tomorrow..

The finish quality looks utterly superb. I ran the ten down because of it's price once, but it looks like it might well be worth every penny..

Superb!! this bike look awesome!!

Good work mate - That looks tough

Get out and get it dirty... I wana see them pics.

Enjoy.

Greg.

DIRT!! Noooooo....

Sweeeet!!

Pete

Whoa I missed this! Congrats Paul

Now you've got a big ADV bike you can come up to the NW and whack it around the great roads of Yorkshire . We'll get it broken in over a weekend..