Garmin Montana

cablebandit · Feb 6, 2013

As posted a few pages back before this latest rat hole, the below pic clearly shows the track is quite visible on the route. On the right you can see where the route deviates from the track.

I think all these issues have been answered time and time again in this thread.

Rocky TFS · Feb 6, 2013

snooker said: ↑

Restore Defaults is EVIL for motorcyclists on the move! grrrr. :huh
Click to expand...

I agree!!!!

However, I learned early on not to use much of anything besides the zoom buttons when going over 5 mph, and to place either a thumb or the heel of the hand on the bars or the side of the unit to help the index finger's accuracy. I haven't had a reset happen since.

The other REALLY dangerous Reset button is in the trip computer menu, last item....this will reset EVERYTHING, including all profiles.:eek1 I NEVER use the trip computer menu unless stationary and also made a shortcut that uses the first menu option, reset trip timers, averages, etc. Much safer.

Emoto · Feb 6, 2013

Rocky TFS said: ↑

More testing at home:
Opened BaseCamp, set activity to Automobile Driving and map to CNNA.
Created route with 202 points and 103 via points and sent it to Montana
On Montana, set profile to Topo (Topo USA and route activity to Direct)
Upon GO, Montana shows route with 103 points, no limits.
Reset Montana to Automobile profile (CNNA and activity Automobile)
Reload route
Upon GO, it gives the 50 point limit message and gets in the loop between the map with the GO button and the message. I had to X back to home page where no route is active.
This is consistent with the previous test.

Test #2:
Opened BaseCamp, set activity to Direct and map to USA Topo.
Created route with 131 points and sent it to Montana
On Montana, set profile to Topo (Topo USA and route activity to Direct)
Upon GO, Montana shows route with 131 points, no limits. ( I haven't tested for 250+, but I'll bet it is a limit because when I first got it a year ago I tried importing some 300+ point routes from Mapsource and they were all truncated at 250.)
Reset Montana to Automobile profile (CNNA and route activity Automobile)
Part way through the profile change, it gives the 50 via point limit message and gets in the loop between the map with the GO button and the message. I had to X back to home page where no route is active.

Just for grins, I then went to Setup-Routing and changed the activity to direct, with the CNNA map still enabled:
Re-clicked that route and hit GO....No 50 point limit. Changed it back to Automobile driving and the 50 point message appeared instantly.

SO, it seems to be the routing activity in route setup on the unit that is the controlling factor, not the map itself.

Also, I believe that if you set the routing activity to Direct, no matter what map is enabled, you WILL NOT get turn by turn directions....(fairly well understood behavior).

Hope this helps SOMEBODY!!!

PS, for those who haven't read ALL 459 pages of this thread:eek1 , whenever you send a route with a direct activity to the Montana, it is editable and reversible. When you send one with auto or motorcycle or other custom activity that doesn't use direct routing, it will NOT be editable or reversable.
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Hey Rocky, if you woudl care to email me one of your 300+ point routes (to emoto1 at gmail dot com) , I would like to try importing it into my Zumo 350LM, just to see (and report) what happens. When I pulled in Darryl's 52 point route, it automatically made it into 2 routes. It would be cool to know if it would make a larger one into however many...

UPDATE: I pulled a 911 point route into a Zumo 350 and posted results in the 350 discussion thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20668779#post20668779

Albie · Feb 6, 2013

Rocky TFS said: ↑

including all profiles.:eek1 I NEVER use the trip computer menu unless stationary and also made a shortcut that uses the first menu option, reset trip timers, averages, etc. Much safer.
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Sigh I did the reset everything once when I was just trying to reset the trip computer.I won't make that mistake again!

snooker · Feb 7, 2013

Thanks Cable and Albie... I see your example is Black for tracks and I guess the route is always PINK, so the skinny black line on the PINK shows up pretty well. I'll try that out, I was using Yellow or Green for tracks and it is not easy to see the track stacked up on top of PINK. Can you change the Route color?

I came from using only Tracks on my 60Csx and after this entire discussion I think for most of my offroad trips I will end up just using Tracks if I have them or else create my own Routes if I don't and then create tracks from them but may not use the routes much. For a quick "city" trip I may use Routes more. I'm not a long distance tourer type. But I'll keep experimenting.

So... all in all sortof anti-climactic, thinking how cool it will be to do Routes on this fabulous new toy. It is but I guess you just have to learn the beast and its limitations.

The clincher for me was yesterday when I ran across this admission by DRTBYK:

DRTBYK said: ↑

atlas cached said: ↑

Just want to ask, if, when a Route fails to behave as expected, you can just follow the Track instead, until the Route again begins to behave as you wish, why use Routes in the first place? Why not just use the Tracks you create?
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OK, you caught me. I don't use Routing much at all. I only create them so I can easily create Tracks. When I do use Routing, it's usually to just play with the settings to see how the code will behave. On rare occasions I'll use Routing when I'm in unfamiliar Cities (that have good maps) so I can get better visual guidance from the GPS.

But, again, I'm a Track guy and Routing is just a "toy" to be played with - not relied upon.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

My bubble is popped. :eek1 Long live Tracks!

snooker · Feb 7, 2013

Popped my cherry in another way today. First day with the Montana on my bike (been in a cage before today, experimenting without crashing)...

I have the Rugged Mount with the Montana in portrait mode fairly steep angle (vertical-ish like 60 degrees up from flat). It was often rotating either left or right into landscape mode. I fixed it by locking the display in Portrait, but is this a common "problem"? What seems to cause it, just vibration or ?

Emmbeedee · Feb 7, 2013

snooker said: ↑

I fixed it by locking the display in Portrait, but is this a common "problem"? What seems to cause it, just vibration or ?
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Very common; even if using the Montana handheld, you're likely to want to lock the orientation. Inertia can cause the problem; acceleration, braking, leaning. You name it.

Yossarian™ · Feb 8, 2013

snooker said: ↑

Popped my cherry in another way today. First day with the Montana on my bike (been in a cage before today, experimenting without crashing)...

I have the Rugged Mount with the Montana in portrait mode fairly steep angle (vertical-ish like 60 degrees up from flat). It was often rotating either left or right into landscape mode. I fixed it by locking the display in Portrait, but is this a common "problem"? What seems to cause it, just vibration or ?
Click to expand...

The internal accelerometer gets 'fused.

TravellingStrom · Feb 8, 2013

Yossarian;20676866 said:

The internal accelerometer gets 'fused.
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That is a misleading term as fused means in electronics to have become hot and melted toegther.

In this instance I am sure you meant "confused" which would make sense

It is not a fault with the unit

advNZer? · Feb 8, 2013

TravellingStrom said: ↑

That is a misleading term as fused means in electronics to have become hot and melted toegther.

In this instance I am sure you meant "confused" which would make sense

It is not a fault with the unit
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yes that why he put ' before the fused

MasterMarine · Feb 9, 2013

This thread is so massive, it is impossible to read. I just bought a Montana 600 yesterday. It seems like a great unit.

I found it only supports somwhere around 200 via points in direct routes. :huh I cannot figure out the exact number as when I look at the routes from the unit in Basecamp, it shows the whole thing but when I look at it on the Montana (not hooked up to computer) the route is truncated. I would like to see more. How do I give this input to Garmin?

Perhaps someone else already ran into this limitation??

Rocky TFS · Feb 9, 2013

=MasterMarine;20685851
Perhaps someone else already ran into this limitation??
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The limit on via points in a direct route should be 250. Try the attached 249 point route and see if it truncates on the Montana. Make sure both BC and the Montana are set to direct activity.

I checked it in mine, but I can't actually try navigating, since it's in Colorado and I'm in Idaho. All 249 points showed up in the edit page. Hint: the last point is called
2 ELHillElkMtnRd 537 (Requires a LOT of page downs to see.... Might be easier to show on map and zoom to last point in the SW corner.)

If it's there, the route has not been truncated. If you need more than that you're only choice is to make it a track, which has a 10,000 point limit.

MasterMarine · Feb 9, 2013

I was guessing on the number of via points before it truncated in direct mode. I tried to find specs but of course I could not. It could be closer to 250. Still it is not enough. I do not understand why they do not up the limits considerably. My old Lowrance iFinder allowed 9999 point tracks and I bought that way back in 2000. The Garmins with their 500 point max for tracks mystified me when I ran into the issue with my Garmin eTrex and 60csx. And now my new $500 Montana can do a 10000 point track... :huh Finally caught up to the 13 year old Lowrance. Of course the screen on the Montana is worlds better than the Lowrance. Kind of like comparing Pong to Playstation3 or XBox.

Anyway, it seems strange that the thing is limited to such small numbers. In these days of 32 gigabyte micro-SD cards, it seems like we should be able to have tracks that are millions of points. We should not be running into any limitations like these.

Is there some Montana forum somewhere on the net? I found Garmin's forum but they only have sub forums for running and swimming GPS units.

Jon_PDX · Feb 9, 2013

BruceWA said: ↑

I'm about to reach information overload. :eek1
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250senuf said: ↑

About to? :huh
ABOUT TO!!? :eek1
Highlighted map and compass looking good.

Click to expand...

My brain already exploded a few pages back :eek1

Unless this is a Montana ONLY issue with via points, shaping points, limits, etc.... I would kindly like to ask for it to be moved over to the BaseCamp thread. If it's only related to the Montana, then disregard my request.

Jon...

Emmbeedee · Feb 9, 2013

Jon_PDX said: ↑

My brain already exploded a few pages back :eek1

Unless this is a Montana ONLY issue with via points, shaping points, limits, etc.... I would kindly like to ask for it to be moved over to the BaseCamp thread. If it's only related to the Montana, then disregard my request.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree on this - it's not only a Montana issue - it's the same for all the modern Garmin gps units as far as I can tell. The 62/78/Oregon/Colorado and likely the new eTrex line all have the same limitation. I just tried out Rocky TFS's file and it gave me the same 50 point limitation to the route in On Road Navigation mode on my 62S.

The 50 point limitation's a little more frustrating with the Montana since it's supposed to be the "Ultimate" Garmin gps (of its type) right now. We all know it's not a Zumo, but it's as close to a Zumo as I want.

But I think moving the subject to a thread specifically on 'Routing with Garmin's Montana/Oregon/62/78/eTrex XX' is a good idea. In fact I have just created that topic now. (Oops, forgot the Dakota but it probably has the same issue)

The problem is not specifically a Basecamp issue, though.

snooker · Feb 9, 2013

Well yes I can certainly understand and I assume the recent brain explosions were MY fault. :eek1

I am not disagreeing but coming from the 60CSx to the Montana and now trying to learn about using it for routing, it seemed that posters would for example only say "Direct" and for a long time I thought they meant "Direct" on the Montana but usually they meant Direct on BC and sometimes vice versa. Very different and hard for me to tell which was the case. On top of that I could not decipher terminology like points vs. via points vs. shaping without an understanding of them in BC vs. the Montana, plus some posters were using the terms interchangeably or were posting terms from old experience with old GPS models.

So in theory one could stay in a BaseCamp thread and learn concepts then move to this thread and ask Montana specific questions but it is hard because terminology is not consistent and the 2 are so interwoven. If there was a good reference you could just point us newbies there and I'd be happy to go there an learn (still am), but don't know of one.

My goal on my BC posts was to get some agreement on terminology so I/we on the Montana thread could move forward with discussions.

Having said all of this, I admit I did NOT pay my dues and have not read all of the Montana thread. It is a daunting task. So please forgive me, I hope I have helped somebody out there if my posts on terminology were correct.

I'll try to update the new Routing On the Montana thread (good idea MBD!)... with some of my posts and move topics there.

Emmbeedee · Feb 9, 2013

snooker said: ↑

I'll try to update the new Routing On the Montana thread (good idea MBD!)... with some of my posts and move topics there.
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That would be great - I think the subject bores some people but others can't get enough of it. Your posts and the others who participated in that subject are very elaborate and well thought out but right over the heads of those of us who don't use Routes.

The other thread should be very informative to those who do use routes regardless of which gps they use.

Rocky TFS · Feb 9, 2013

MasterMarine said: ↑

Anyway, it seems strange that the thing is limited to such small numbers. In these days of 32 gigabyte micro-SD cards, it seems like we should be able to have tracks that are millions of points.
Is there some Montana forum somewhere on the net? I found Garmin's forum but they only have sub forums for running and swimming GPS units.
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You are looking at it...

Garmin does have a BaseCamp forum, it is sometimes helpful. This is better:
http://garminmontanagpsr.wikispaces.com/

and this:
http://garminbasecamp.wikispaces.com/

Pretty much required reading for anyone new to the game. EDIT Oh yeah, and this: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=790308 Sorry EmmBeeDee :)

For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would ever need more than a couple thousand track points. The longest one I ever created was about 600, on any GPS I've owned.

atlas cached · Feb 9, 2013

MasterMarine said: ↑

Is there some Montana forum somewhere on the net? I found Garmin's forum but they only have sub forums for running and swimming GPS units.
Click to expand...

You might find something of interest here.

Albie · Feb 9, 2013

Emmbeedee said: ↑

I would tend to agree on this - it's not only a Montana issue - it's the same for all the modern Garmin gps units as far as I can tell. The 62/78/Oregon/Colorado and likely the new eTrex line all have the same limitation. I just tried out Rocky TFS's file and it gave me the same 50 point limitation to the route in On Road Navigation mode on my 62S.

The 50 point limitation's a little more frustrating with the Montana since it's supposed to be the "Ultimate" Garmin gps (of its type) right now. We all know it's not a Zumo, but it's as close to a Zumo as I want.

But I think moving the subject to a thread specifically on 'Routing with Garmin's Montana/Oregon/62/78/eTrex XX' is a good idea. In fact I have just created that topic now. (Oops, forgot the Dakota but it probably has the same issue)

The problem is not specifically a Basecamp issue, though.
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Exactly, it's not a Basecamp issue at all. But it's not a Montana specific issue either. All the hiking handhelds have the same 50 via point limit AFAIK. The 276,376,478 all can do something like 100 if I remember correctly. The old Zumo's can do 500 via points, and the new Zumo's can do 1000 via points.

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