All things Automobile - THE definitive car thread

Yea, I still have the Taurus It's on ebay right now. but if I were you I wouldn't go that direction. Last month I knocked $5700 (between the new vehicle and the value of the trade) off of the deal I was offered on a high demand vehicle - a JK Unlimited Rubicon. If I was able to move them that far on something they can't get enough of, you certainly can make a dealer move farther on something with either greater supply or less demand. It's not a bad time to buy a new car if you know what you are doing.

Since you previously mentioned Chrysler when we last discussed your current vehicle, if you go that direction with a minivan I can attest to the power of the 3.6 Liter V-6. However, Wranglers aside I am not a Chrysler fan, nor can I attest to any long term quality with respect to the engine or their vehicles. Of course, considering your current spectacular piece of shit, how much worse can it get

Audi's new automatic car parking system.

http://www.wimp.com/carparking/
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I want to replace my '08 silverado crew with another crewcab.

No to anything Chrysler. I already had my share of those, and still have the Jeep. I will never own another chrysler product past 60K miles. You do have to consider my current piece of shit is closing in on 250k miles.

We're still trying to figure out if we are looking for one car to replace the van, or two cars, one for her to drive daily, and the other to be used as a non work car for both of us and our weekend family hauler. The two car plan was how we counted on going if her van was holding together better. It was going to get kept for commuter duty, and a luxury something or another was going to be added.
Ended up spending the most time looking at the Ford dealer. We had sort of looked at the focus a few times over the last few months as the ford dealership is right next to the shop where her van gets worked on. We had talked about getting one of those and keeping her van for longer trip duty, but now that her van doesn't seem to be trustworthy enough, we took a look at the escape instead. That lead to us looking at the edge, then the explorer. Then, I saw a used caddy SRX on the other side, and figured the total for that and the focus was less than the Explorer, so we ended up back at square one.
The fact that we count on trying to sell our house and moving this year comes in to play as well as we don't want to empty out our savings, or take on too much of a loan where it would impact our house buying ability. So there's a whole 'nother thing to keep in the discussion.
We'll go back and do some test drives of the focus and escape this weekend. In the mean time, I'll stop at some of the dealers for the brands we don't have close by over the next few days when I can find the time. I already remember why I try to only buy a new car once every ten years.

Research the hell out of what you are buying. Join forums for the specific vehicle. Know what they are selling for, and shoot to beat the best price you can find anyone saying they got. Expect to hear "We can't do that" alot.

Internet shop for prices at multiple dealers. Then take it to your local dealer and see what they can do.

Patience. Don't count on buying in a hurry. Be willing to walk out. I'd be willing to bet I don't get around to actually buying anything for a month.

They are giving back so much money on pickups right now that should be easy.

My "trick" was simple. I knew what MSRP was, I knew what invoice was, and I knew that a 1% - 2% under invoice deal was obtainable from at least *some* dealers. All that left was the trade. I did my research, figured out what retail book was and left them a little room to make some money.

When I went to the dealer I presented my deal. They came back with theirs, which was MSRP for the Jeep and $3000 less for my trade than wholesale book ($5000 less than retail book). I told them thanks for their time, and I was going to leave. So they started playing the salesman dance, wearing out a track between the Salesman's desk and the Manager's office, each time presenting an only slightly better but still shitty deal. While the Salesman was screwing around in the Manager's office on one of these trips I walked into the General Manager's office and introduced myself. I found some commonality with him and chatted for a bit, making sure the Salesman came back to find me laughing and joking with the GM. When the salesman came into the office I looked at the GM and said "will you please tell this guy to sell me a Jeep already? I mean, how hard is it?" The GM chuckled and said "you heard the man, sell him a Jeep". The GM then packed up and went home for the night, but not before stopping by the Sales Manager's office. A minute later the Sales Manager came over to me and asked what we would have to do to get the deal done. I did not waver and presented exactly the same figures I'd presented the first time. He told me he couldn't do it. So I said I understood and got up to leave. He said "aren't you at least going to counter offer?" I said "I'm really hungry and just want to go have dinner. I understand you can't do my deal. Thank you for your time." He told me I didn't understand, that there is a shortage and Jeep can sell 50,000 more Wranglers than they can build this model year (that's true, by the way). Because of that they can get retail money out of the Jeep I wanted to buy. I responded by telling him I understood, and he was welcome to go find that retail buyer if that's what he was after, but I wasn't that retail buyer and I was there now, ready to buy. We talked for a bit and he finally broke. The last thing he said was "we've done all of the moving here. You haven't budged a dollar". I told him he was right, and reduced my demand from 2% under invoice to 1% under invoice, giving up about $350.00 in the process. That got the deal done.

When all was said and done they cleared about a grand on the new vehicle (including financing kickback and doc fee) and probably $1500 - $2000 on my trade. I was ok with that. It's unrealistic to expect them to make nothing and stay in business, and I want them to be in business. Making $2500 on me was fine, I just didn't want them making almost 10 grand.

So now that you have the long story, here are the quick hits:

1) Know your product. By that I mean know all of the numbers.

2) Know your financing options. Again, all of the numbers.

3) Don't object. Their training and methodology is all about overcoming objections. I don't object or argue. I agree, tell them I understand, and then tell them what I am willing to do, which makes them start objecting. Then I overcome their objections

4) Leave the urgency at home. You don't NEED the new vehicle. If the deal isn't right, walk. If five dealers tell you to go fuck yourself, you might have unrealistic expectations.

Good luck!

So far you've narrowed it down to "no Chrysler" and from what I can tell you aren't interested in a dump truck. Everything else seems to be wide open Perhaps you can narrow it down a bit

While at the Ford dealer why didn't you at least test drive the couple of models you ere most interested in?

That way you could make better comparisons with the other brands you.stop at next.

How are you getting the invoice numbers?

This could save me like 5 hours. Me buying a car usually involves walking out at least twice and taking an entire day getting my price.

They are all over the Internet. Try truecar.com. That's what I used.

They were closed already. I don't have the skills to hot wire a car. I'll wait for them to be there.

This is what I have done on my last two vehicles. So long as you know what your trade is worth, and what the vehicle you want is actually selling for, then getting a new car is pretty easy and stress free. I got a 2009 Titan for 12.5K off MSRP (advertised was 10K off, but there is always a little more wiggle room) and a two year old Civic Si with only 28K miles for 15K (sticker on new like this one was 24K). Both times, I researched before ever going to the dealer and like Bueller walked out with a different vehicle than I went in with having paid my original offer.

Buying a car is easy for me. I go the same sales guy every time - someone from my Masonic lodge. He prints out the dealer's numbers (the real ones, including holdback), and tacks on $100.

In return I send just about everyone who ever asks me to him.

Even if not for the Masonic connection I'd still use him. He's the most zero-bullshit car salesman I've ever seen. "You don't want that one - it's garbage." or "Yes, it looks good, but you have no business spending that much right now." You'd think he would be a pauper but he's extremely successful and has very loyal repeat customers.

Back up ~28yrs. I pull up to my buddy's house and see his dad inside the Scirocco, cranking the engine, and my buddy shooting ether into the intake. I screamed "STOP!". Then, I explained why one never shoots ether into a gas engine. I pulled the plugs, to air out the engine, and determined we had no spark.

Fast forward, to ~2yrs ago. I get a phone call from my buddy saying he'd done something really stupid. "Oh yeah, what was that?", I ask. He says, "I shot ether into my van's intake and it backfired.". "What did I tell you how many years ago?", I asked. He says it wouldn't start and had to use the van. I went through the same reasons why to never use ether on a gas engine. Unfortunately for him, I was working on the road and couldn't work on it. As it turns out, the fuel pump was bad and he blew out the intake gaskets.

A couple months ago, he was going down the highway and the van dropped a cylinder and started making a bunch of racket that sounded like a collapsed lifter. "No problem", I thought, as I've got time to work on it. When I pulled the intake, I found bent pushrods. Not only did the ether blow the intake gaskets, but, it bent pushrods. I took the pushrods to the owner of the shop and explained to him there's no way his no-longer-employed-there mechanic should've missed them, as they were the first thing I saw when the intake came off. Moral of this story: Never ever use ether on a gas engine. If it has compression, fuel, and spark, it'll start.

The grooves in the pushrods are from them rubbing on the passageways through the heads.


I found the lower half of this pushrod lying on top of the cam's distributor drive gear.

I just drove the worst car I've ever had the displeasure of getting into. Keep in mind, I've been driving since the mid-80's, so I never had the opportunity to drive a Pinto, Vega, or Chevette. But I did drive a Chevy Citation once, and I'd prefer it to what I just hid in the garage so nobody sees it.

I have a loaner Scion iQ. The local Toyota dealership seemed to think that they could tell me my truck would be ready in 3 hours, yet 2 hours and 45 minutes into that time, my truck hadn't moved, and they also had told me it was a 3 hour job.

A couple of short conversations later:ddog, I was driving off in the loaner iQ.

Holy crap that thing redefines shitbox. I love small cars...they can feel zippy without being fast, and can put a huge smile on my face. Not this thing. Understeers horribly, yet still manages to feel very darty and totally unstable when moving in any direction. Today is windless, yet somehow I was getting blown all over the road and had difficulty keeping the thing in one lane. I've had plastic lawn furniture that feels better and more structurally sound than the seats in the iQ.

I also like well-executed CVTs (as in the latest Outback). Toyota apparently threw out any knowledge of what constitutes a good transmission when they made this thing. It goes something like this:

1) step on the gas to leave the stoplight
2) something begins to sound like a blender with ball bearings in it, but there's precious little forward motion
3) step on gas harder
4) ball bearings in a blender sound gets quite loud. Blender is angry!
5) car darts uncontrollably left and right as it begins to move forward:eek1
6) step on gas harder because you just got smoked off the line by a blue-hair in a Sentra
7) ANGRY BLENDER!!
8) achieve cruise speed of 30 mph, reduce gas pedal pressure.
9) angry blender goes away, car slows to 20 mph
10) repeat step 6 before blue-hair sideswipes you

I swear, maintaining a speed in the iQ is impossible. It's a constant back and forth of the CVT trying to idle the engine which causes you to slow down, then the driver having to nail the pedal to the floor to get any perceptible acceleration, which then causes the car to dart left or right, which exposes the total lack of structural integrity of the seats....it just keeps going.

Again...I like small cars and CVTs. If someone's only exposure to a small car and/or a CVT is the iQ, then they will likely hate both forever.

Here's a pic of the offending shitbox:

I use carb cleaner (or brake cleaner - but not in a closed environment due to the potential to create phosgene from the chlorinates) as a quick and dirty test for fuel related no start conditions.

Ether can be used, but the user better damn well know what they are doing. I've used it successfully in both gas and diesel applications. The mistake most people make is they don't realize that a very little bit goes a very long way.

With a gas engine having advanced ignition, I'll choose to keep my eyebrows.

Hell, I just used WD40 on my Willys pickup the other day since it's been sitting for a few weeks.

Not sure if you know or not, but the risks are actually worse in a diesel.

Gas engine ignition will light up carb cleaner just as easily, as I've gotten the pleasure of witnessing first hand when a fellow tech lit up a customer's engine compartment right in front of the customer. I'm not sure which freaked out the customer more - the fire, or the extinguisher I emptied on his car when my co-worker - frozen in panic - refused to act

Thanks for the tips! How much do you figure a dealer should make on a sale? I wrote this: "I would point out that NADA bbv clean trade is $21,900 for my truck and the same clean trade is $25,700 for the F150. The difference being $3800. You are pointing towards a transaction difference of $6-7000." In an email to a dealer this evening. Maybe I don't understand the business well enough.

Love the tech stuff in this thread--although it is way over my head for the most part.