Antigravity Batteries latest incarnations and discount...

Hi All,

Antigravity Batteries http://antigravitybatteries.com has evolved to the next generation in our development of our ultra powerful lightweight Lithium Powersports Batteries. As always we are offering our 10% discount code "adventure" to all the inmates... just punch it in at check out.

We are super excited to post about our new line of Direct OEM replacement batteries but with LITHIUM inside.. These batteries are Direct OEM replacement size for most all modern bikes yet offer substantially higher cranking amps than lead/acid or other Lithium batteries and have wieght savings of up to 80% over lead/acid...These new models come in the most popular OEM case sizes used in modern bikes... AND as always we also have our Ultra Compact Small Case models that are the most powerful, smallest and lightest format of any battery available.... So now you have the choice of either direct OEM sizes for a drop in fit or the ultra small format to save space in the battery tray...

So what set Antigravity apart from the other Lithium Batteries on the market??? I'm glad you asked....

Lets compare Antigravity to one of the Lithium companies that markets A LOT more than we do and starts with an "S"

1) We are made in America... Los Angeles actually.

2) We offer a 3 year warranty as compared to a 2 year warranty and don't have warranty voiding issue like if you get salt on the terminal your warranty is void. Read the warranties....our competitor also voids the warranty if you allow the battery to drop below 12.6v( thats pretty wierd at some point a battery will go below that)... Our batteries do NOT have little issue like this that void the warranty because they are built better and stronger with large brass terminals to flow the power and handle abuse.

3) Our batteries offer much higher cranking amps which maintain much higher voltage on start up and a faster motor spin on start up which aids in starting.... For example in roughly the same size battery their puts out a Max of 270 Cranking Amps, yet the Antigravity can put out 360 Cranking Amps or you can get the higher power model that puts out 480 Cranking amps... yet is the same size as our competitor with close to twice the power.

4) We are waterproof... our competitor is NOT.... If you dump the bike in a water crossing you can see some serious damage with theirs... not with ours... water tight seal... Yep, that's pretty important in an off road bike.

There is an Adventure Rider thread http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770364 that some may be intersted in to learn more about Lithium batteries. One of your resident inmatesis doing some testing on Lithium batteries,actually beating the hell our of these batteries....Antigravity doesn't come into the picture until around page 7 or 8....but he beats our battery up too...and check the results we do great.

Here are some pics of our stuff...

Small Case models 4- cell and 8-Cell... also available in 12-Cell and 16-Cell models...



New OEM SIZES
YTZ7-S with Lithium found in all Euro and Japanese Enduros... 240 Cranking Amps! Twice that of Lead.YTZ10-S same as YTZ12 and YTZ14 found in most larger KTMs


YTX12 and YT12-BS Case format found in many Euro and Japanes bikes used in BMWs from 360 to 720 cranking amps.

Ordered my Antigravity YTZ10S-12 the other day and you shipped it the same afternoon! Looking forward to using it in my KTM Superduke R in place of the tired OEM Yuasa when it gets here next week. My son-in-law is an Engineer at A123 and I was glad to see you use their power cells in your product.

Thanks for the quick shipping Scott and the thread you referenced is a great read if people are so inclined to learning more about batteries in general and some Lithium products in particular.

Looking at the YTZ10-12 "direct replacement battery" to replace a YUASA YTZ14S. The picture of the Antigravity YTZ10-12 does not appear to have the square post connection of the YTZ14S. Is there an adapter available or....?
What is the delivery of the YTZ10-12 - in stock or...? Current batteyr is dead and needs to be replaced.
Also - does the use of the 4-Amp Lifepo4 Battery Charger help extend the operating life of the YTZ10-12 battery or...?

Sorry for delay...c forgot to subscribe to thread...

Yes we have a small square spacer and longer bolt that will come with the battery. It allows for the type of battery cable end that has the folded ears on the ends. We designed the battery like this intentionally and we call it multi-use terminal because we have other motor sports that use our battery rather than just motorcycles so we didn't want the tall square terminal for a couple reasons.. For example you can adapt an SAE Automobile type post to our terminal. You will also notice are terminals are beefy all brass with a one bolt connection point, they are also much lower than the tall square terminal on a motorcycle battery which we did intentionally to keep the contact points more protected from shorting out on frames, tools and stuff... not that this will happen in a bike but we are used a lot in race cars and custom bikes and they want low and small and we saw no reason to copy the design exactly of a motorcycle battery because it limited the use of the battery.

Keeping a battery in a good state of charge does in fact lead to better battery life, continually having them on a charger is not needed for the cells to achieve a longer life . A charger actually charges to 14.6v, and after taken off the charger the battery will drop into the 13v range... you do not need to keep the battery at this 14.6v state of charge at all... 13.2 is the nominal voltage but it usually sits at 13.4~7 and that is perfectly fine. Unless you have a large rapid parasitic drain that is constantly lowering the voltage quickly then you should not have a problem, or need it on a charger. Riding your bike keeps it topped off. If you do not have a parasitic drain the battery will sit at about 13.4~7 for almost a year and in which case putting on the charger will not really do anything to prolong life. Keep in mind Lead/Acid needs a trickle charger because it has an effect called Natural Discharge where it loses voltage relatively rapidly even without being connected to anything. Lithium has this effect but it is so insignificant as to only lower the voltage by about .2v in a year. I have a couple original shrink wrap models from year ago sitting at 13v still after 2 years in a drawer.

If you can test you battery for the first month or so to determine if you have a fast parasitic drain and then determine you don't....you will be good to go for a long time. I would not bother with keeping it on a charger. In fact I suggest only charging it if you see the voltage going below 13v often... if you determine you battery hangs at the 13.4 range even after months of sitting you are golden.

We have every battery in stock all the time... most the time we ship the next day after the order. Or if we get it early enough the same day.

Regards,
S-

Are there issues with cold starts on cold days? I've read issues (don't remember if it was AG or a competitor) where these batteries typically need to be "warmed up" since they don't work when well when it is cold.

Can you comment on balance charging AFAIK your batteries don't have a BMS connection and the competition all seem to think it's necessary.

Downloaded a dealer app for my brick and mortar moto store. Thanks!

This can be true depending on how cold... it also depends on the power of the battery. A higher cranking amp battery can power through the colder weather... So imagine a person has a KTM 450XC or any 450 electric start for that matter... If he puts a 4-cell in it going for the ultimate weight savings he will suffer the "cold start lag" in weather in the 50s degrees and below.. but if he has an 8-Cell in a 450 is going to flip it with really authority even in the 50s since is has 240 cranking amps (twice the power of the lead acid version and the 4-cell) and then they could go with the 12-cell small case which is no bigger than a YZ7-S lead acid battery yet has 360 Cranking amps and can power through most anything in a 450 motor. Though the cold-lag seems like an issue it really isn't that bad and actually is a safer bet than lead. Lead is front loaded so if you don't get it started in the first couple times in really cold weather its done and won't start it. Lithium will actually get strong and stronger after a couple start attempts and you can count on it starting for sure after a couple attempts max. Regardless the condition does exist for lithium, but its just part of this type of technology.

So if you go with the correct size battery for your conditions you can actually defeat the condition. But alot of people go for the ultra lightweight and smallest one to save a bunch of weight and that is not really what you want to do unless you race. It mostly about the Cranking Amps honestly more power and the thing will start in most any weather because it has overhead.

Hope that answered your question.

Lets just say... COLD!!!





Yes, the OBC is showing only 7 degrees above zero, Farenheit.
And that was at 1pm, near the warmest part of the day...

How would one of these batteries do in THOSE conditions.
(50 degrees is NOT what I would consider cold...)

So, the effective May 16, 2012 USPS is banning the shipping of lithium batteries overseas and to military APO/FPO addresses. ( http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22336/html/updt_004.htm ).

Since I get my mail at a military base overseas, i need to know...does this policy change mean I can't get a battery from you to my APO mailbox?

Hey Mike, good question....Actually they do not have a BMS connection ( though they may call it that) they have what is called a Balance Connector ... a real BMS ( Battery maintenance System) is much more elaborate. a BMS is a circuit board that is "on-board" the battery in between the batteries cells and the final terminal connections. A BMS is a system that balances all the cells in real time, it does not allow for over discharge or over charge of the battery cells. A BMS is NOT balance charging. BMS are often used in power tools and UPS batteries. What the other companies you speak of have is a Balance Port- meaning you plug in your Balance Charger to the port and it balances the cells inside and tell you the voltage of the cells...they do not balance the battery real time while riding the vehicle as a real BMS would since it is inside the battery itself... that would be a nice feature....So yes we do not a Balance Port, but Antigravity does not agree that you need a balance port for our product.

I wouldn't put a 3-year warranty on the battery if I felt they were going to be failing because of unbalanced cells, it would be a huge loser since the cells are quite expensive.. Shorai offers a two year warranty yet claims they have a balance charger for the battery that extends the life of the battery... well why do they only warranty for 2 years? We offer a 3 year warranty and don't have balancing...I think that says something....We have an industrial strength cell that can handle long hard use without the propensity to get out of balance.

In general after the bike is started the battery is kept in a state of full charge by the bikes charging system... If the cells are going out of balance to a significant degree when in this use then they are a low-end cells that will perpetually be going out of balance because of differing rate of discharge between individual cells. If you use a world class cell like the A123 the rate of discharge and charge is very even across the individual cells because of ultra high level of quality control at the factory and because of the consistency and quality of the material used in used in production. Those are truths.

I have yet to see any of our batteiries experiance a detrimental out of balance state even after years of use...I haven't been able to catch it and test it to show that "yes" these cells are out of balance significantly and made a battery fail or affected overall performance.... and the many times we did very deep discharge testing and recharges over and over I didn't get out of balance effect that would harm the performance or damage the battery cells.

In racing they use our Antigravity Batteries a lot in "total-loss" systems I tested with some teams quite a bit. In that use they run the bike's entire electrical system/ignition off the battery... they usualy take the battery into a much lower state of discharge than a normal bike will see and they do it on every ride.... In this case i still did not note a significant or detrimental out of balance state occuring with our batteries...they would just recharge the batteries with our charger and do it again and again all season long...


The real key to battery life is keeping the battery in a higher state of charge more often than not....I don't mean on a charger but not allowing it to dip below 12v rarely if ever... this is about checking up on the battery and not storing it in the bike if the bikes has a parasitic drain and not riding for a couple months... Those are the real killers of batteries ... Funny thing is according to Shorais warranty your battery is void if you allow it to go below.. 12.6v.... Whose battery doesn't go below 12.6v at some time...

It appears that they are banning all Lithium Batteries... At first I thought it was Lithium Metal which already has the strictest rules and already banned, because they are in fact dangerous ... but they also say lithium ion so I will have to do a bit more digging. We ship internationally everyday using USPS because of it low rate. Nothing has every come back and no mail has been opened. We package according to PI 965 but this may not work any longer this could be unfortunate.

Yep damn cold that is... that will effect Lithium.... so the best you could do is blast it with insane cranking amps in a lithium battery. We offer two of the most powerful production batteries available in the motorcycle battery format....We make a 600 Cranking Amp version and 720 Cranking Amp version in a package that is only 6" long x 3.4" deep x 5.12" tall (YTX12 size). We made them to start the massive 135 Cubic inch and above V-Twins, but they are so powerful that they can blast most anything even in cold. the 720 cranking amp model is coming out in about 4-weeks...a bit overkill for anything but the most crazy motors.

To put that type of power in perspective it is 2 and a half times the Cranking power of a Harley Battery (YTX20)....and weighs about 12 pounds less... but it is what the Ultra large 2300cc V-Twins need when they have those high compression motors built motors in their customs...they can't start them unless they jump them with another battery.

Our batteries arrived today here in Oz. Post didn't open them although there was a sticker applied that said they were x-ray scanned by customs - Happy days.

It is certainly the case that Australia post will not carry any lithium batteries no matter what sort they are, but that's typical of our anal bureaucracy who's attitude is say no and then think about it for a looooooooong time.

I just switched out the old lead/acid battery in my KTM LC4E with one of these new fangled lithium batteries. The 8-cell cranks over the 640 just fine at 45 degrees, better than my older lead/acid battery. I did a little measuring and checked out the specs for the Antigravity small case before I ordered and it looked like I could lose weight and gain storage.

OEM lead/acid in place:


Here is the comparison:


Yup, that Antigravity fits in the battery box nice. Look at all the empty space:


Enough room for a spare 21" tube. That will come in handy some day:


So far, so good. As a side benefit, it seems to have cured the bike's manic episodes too. Now, where's my trickle charger? Oh, that's right. I don't need it anymore.

A few questions...

Application:

• 2010 KTM 450 XCW.
• Electric start, plus kick start.
• Full DC conversion (All stator output is rectified and regulated instead of the split AC lighting / DC charging system that comes OEM)
• OEM battery is an YTX5L-BS, frequently upgraded to a YTZ7S

Questions:

• What size are the terminal posts/bolts the 'small case' batteries? Every picture I've seen just shows the plastic coated wing-nut on the top. 6mm bolt size?
  
  
• 4-cell vs. 8-cell? I'm leaning towards a 4-cell for size/weight/cost reasons. The 450 will kick-start and run fine with no battery at all, so being stranded in the middle of nowhere isn't a huge concern. Nor is very cold weather performance, as the bike isn't going to see much action below freezing. Stator easily delivers more power when running than being consumed, so I'm not worried about drain while riding. My only real concern is simply not enough juice to start the bike consistently on the first/second/maybe third try in normal use, and prematurely killing the battery.
  
  
• How sensitive is the battery to excessive depletion (you list 10.5v as the do-not-go-below voltage on your web site)? What would be the result if somebody continued to try and use the electric start till it simply cranked too slowly for any hope of a start? What about if I accidentally left the lights on till full depletion? Is the battery then 100% toast? Or might it come back with stator charging with some (hopefully minor) reduced capacity?

Are you still on schedule for this?

What will be its dimensions?


ktm950se

A few questions... [B]I answer in BOLD underline[/B]

Full DC conversion (All stator output is rectified and regulated instead of the split AC lighting / DC charging system that comes OEM)
Sorry I'm not familiar with this... but I assume someone like Baja Designs does it? So I would assume (hopefully correctly) that all would be fine with the stock charging system circuitry because there should be no reason to change they charging that is supplied to the battery. If it will in fact charge the same as the stock system then it will be fine for our Lithium.

]Questions:
[*]What size are the terminal posts/bolts the 'small case' batteries? Every picture I've seen just shows the plastic coated wing-nut on the top. 6mm bolt size?
The Size is M6 but all the "Small Case" batteries come with the plastic wing nut AND a regular 6Mx10mm regular hex head flange bolt so you can use whichever one works the best for you. In addition all the small case batteries come with adhesive backed foam in the retail box..... BUT keep in mind that we make the exact YTZ7S case with our lithium packs inside too. Either a 4-cell or 8-cell, which means a direct drop in fit if you choose to use our OEM size case for the YTZ7

4-cell vs. 8-cell? I'm leaning towards a 4-cell for size/weight/cost reasons. The 450 will kick-start and run fine with no battery at all, so being stranded in the middle of nowhere isn't a huge concern. Nor is very cold weather performance, as the bike isn't going to see much action below freezing. Stator easily delivers more power when running than being consumed, so I'm not worried about drain while riding. My only real concern is simply not enough juice to start the bike consistently on the first/second/maybe third try in normal use, and prematurely killing the battery.
]The 4-cell is quite a powerfull little battery it would turn over the 450 many times, but it is more effected by cold than a battery with HIGHER cranking amps. So the 8-Cell would be a better bet if you ride in the cold more often. Additionally the 4-Cell is a tiny battery and though powerful enough to easily start the 450 it is still not the best if you have trail side emergencies like water logging your bike, or flooding it and have a problem the will require 10 repeated start attempts... so for that reason if you do MX or Race the 4-cell is great... if you expect to do longer loops, ride way out an be stuck in positions where you may need to do an "in gear" start the 8-Cell is a better choice... It is literally twice the power of the stock YTZ7 lead/acid and our 4-Cell. My four cell can start my WR many many times in a row but I'm out in Calif and do shorter loops and like you have the back up kick starter so I'm not to worried about trailside emergencies


How sensitive is the battery to excessive depletion (you list 10.5v as the do-not-go-below voltage on your web site)? What would be the result if somebody continued to try and use the electric start till it simply cranked too slowly for any hope of a start? What about if I accidentally left the lights on till full depletion? Is the battery then 100% toast? Or might it come back with stator charging with some (hopefully minor) reduced capacity?

I'm going to answer this with alot of info just so anyone reading this can understand about batteries more...

1) ALL batteries have a minimum volatge they must be maintained at or the cells themselves will be damaged and that damage shows as the lack of ability to hold a charge and the loss of power. So when we say 10.5v is the bottom line it is a generalization BUT is in fact the approximate voltage that Lithium AND Lead/Acid batteries are damaged at. So this isn't a Lithium issue... its a battery issue pertaining to Lead/Acid as well as Lithium... So if you take any battery into the 10.5v range for a period of time like a day or so the cells will be damaged. With lead/acid it can appear that you bring it back to life by having a trickle charger on it, but the fact is the cells are damaged and that battery won't start the bike if off the charger and it will be done within a couple month... But lithium is much more sensitive and if you let it hang out in 10.5v it will be damaged and just no work well at all even after a charge. So it is more sensitive to SHOWING its damaged. Lithium just doesn't perform after severe damage. Lead performs right after coming off the charge but won't hold the charge.

2) You bring up the question "what if I am starting the battery multiple times and possibly bring it down to 10.5v" That CANNOT happen actually... The batteries made for 12v system actually only operate within a small voltage range.... A dead battery in not 0 volts... it is actually roughly around 11.5v and lower. At 11.5v most bikes or cars will only get the "click". To explain it more, a lithium battery's nominal voltage is 13.2 so that is where it sits (roughly) after be charged up to 14.4 then settling back down after a couple days...... And for a lead/acid nominal voltage is 12.8v. But both of these batteries will really only produce enough amperage to start vehicles when they have ABOVE 11.8~12v ( again I'm using rough number becuase it will vary with the bike). So your bike most likely won't even start if the battery is sitting at 11.5v so you cannot damage it by starting it to below 10.5v because it won't even start the bike... BUT if you have some other drain like leaving something on that takes the battery below the 10.5v range then you can damage the battery. Hope that made sense to you. It won't be over starting it that damages it but rather a drain like heated grips, or an alarm, or power commander, leaving lights on. This are thing people usually forget about and don't ride for a while and come back to dead and damaged battery. But also keep in mind this is the same thing with Lead/Acid if you drain it below 10.5 you will have ruined it also.

If you have any other question email me at info@antigravitybatteries.com

Yes we are producing them now... Dimension are 5-7/8 long " x 3 7/16 deep " x 5 1/8 tall"

This is a case format called the YTX12 by Yuasa.... so we call our battey the YTX12-24... both exact same case format/size but the lithium puts out 3x the power of the normal YTX12... The YTX12 is only the "names" for the standardized "case size" in the battery industry. So we put out this specific case format YTX12 in a 12-cell, 16-Cell , 20 Cell and 24-Cell lithium format. So since we offer different power level in the same size case a rider can choose for how they ride. The needs for a Sport rider are much different than an Adventure obviously...If you have any other questions let me know.

Thanks... Your answers all make sense.

Yes, my full DC charging system is from Baja Designs. It eliminates the AC lighting circuit and routes all stator power through a full-wave reg/rect for more DC power.

It is good to know that the bike stop cranking well before the voltage drops into the 'damage zone'.