This is a good point. In my organization, UMTA, we just have a vintage class... Not specific to pre-65, or otherwise.
When I did one I was lucky enough to have an Ariel basket case to start with along with some extensive Ariel connections and expertise through my late father, in a situation similar to Nodabs experience. Without any of that things would have been very difficult and there would have been better choices for a project bike...at least for me. The one thing I am certain of is that the lightweight "Millerized" pre-65 bikes are the only way to go (despite the "hurrumph factor" from some purists) if you are into riding a vintage trials bike as oppposed to polishing one. They are 100+ pounds lighter then their production counterparts and are so much more capable that it can be the difference between being able to comfortably ride events (or not) for some riders at some venues. I previously posted an article my father wrote on doing the project a few years back, which can give you a feel for the time, level of skill and effort required, as well as the pros and cons of the pre-65 aftermarket. http://members.shaw.ca/rjohns/ariel/hunter.htm
COOL! I was reading that just last night.... I have done my share of "rare" projects, and I don't need another one. The work doesn't bother me, just the waiting for or just flat getting the wrong parts are what I am done with. My RG500 was a bear (and EXPENSIVE!!) and my Husky auto is still not totally done..... This is actually more what I am thinking. Not traditional, but still fun and a cool project.
^^^ that is a awesome bike! I would ride it every day until I would wreck or something would mess up and I would not be able to repair it. But still a fantastic looking machine!
Thats a Bob Moore Tiger Cub based Brit twin-shock, modern chrom-moly OIF chassis, Kawasaki forks, billet wheel hubs and yokes, special crank, hand made forged piston, digital ignition, and a £10k price tag! In terms of function its about as far away from anything vaguely authentic P65, as a factory Moto GP bike is from well used BMW airhead. Problem with the ground up new bikes is that they tend to mean events set out much much harder, which makes things very difficult for anyone on more authentic machinery.
Oh, I know.... This is just where I am at right now. Since we do not have a separate P65 class, I would be riding with everything twin shock, so not such a big deal for that. On the cost side of things. I am starting from scratch either way, whether it is a HT5 Gov132 replica or the one above, it ain't gonna be cheap.
Actually the pre-65 designation for bikes such as the Ariel mentioned here is spot on. In fact the origin of that class name is directly attributable to Sammy Miller's move from the Ariel GOV 132 to Bultaco in mid 1964. In typical form he won his last event on the Ariel on a Saturday and first on the Bultaco on a Sunday. The highly modified Ariel was THE classic early sixties four stroke trials bike (along with a couple other types such as the AJS pictured) and to answer the purists, there was NO production version of it (or any Ariel four strokes) after 1958....which was the very reason Miller was allowed to modify it so extensively. When Miller left there was no Ariel factory name at all to ride for, after the BSA parent group pulled the plug on a short-lived run of two stroke street bikes built under that name in the early sixties. There is a pre-60 trials movement in the UK that caters to those true 1950's heavyweight production trials bikes...but "pre-65" is quite accurate for the "Millerized" Ariel as shown here earlier. Whether a fuel-injected, monoshock, disc-braked Triumph Tiger Cub with an alloy perimeter frame qualifies is a matter for debate of course!
There is no P60 trials class here in the UK, and if you have any sort of P65 which is even vaguely authentic, you are at a distinct disadvantage when riding events laid out for modern Brit twin-shocks, which is in effect all of higher level UK competition. The OIF Ariel ridden by Miller was never a production machine, which seems to suggest any other one off special with documented history going back to before Christmas 1964, should also be designated as a P65 machine, if a vague modern day copy was to be created? As to modern day Ariel OIF chassis kits, they differ quite a bit from those around in the 60s, with much shorter wheelbase, steeper steering angles, modified suspension geometry, as well as weighing less. Here in the UK several Ariel riders are also using magnesium top ends, wheel hubs, and gear box casings. However they still weigh considerably more than the very special Cub, Villiers and Bantam based bikes being built now, and are not ridden by anyone competing seriously in higher level events. That seems a shame to me, but I guess when there are in effect no rules, in a sport like trials the heavier more authentic bikes are never going to work as well as the ground up brand new modern lightweights?
Yes, I've heard of a few such events there although not as main stream as the pre-65 movement. I know the Ariel club has run a few to let owners of the earlier production HTs compete with their own kind, so to speak. As you noted, production of them ended in 1958 and all the Sammy Miller GOV132 development took place in the early sixties before his move to Bultaco...hence the "pre-65" thing. Classic events I have ridden here in North America haven't even used that terminology. More of a UK thing I think, where there is a big huff over the "tricked-out" factor of some competing machines...a result of the popularity of the class and modified bikes clashing with the purist movement. Here in North America it's almost a non-issue due to the minimal impact of either! For me, a production 1950's HT was not in the cards. A grand total of four of them came to Canada with the wherabouts of them all known and none for sale! The "Millerized" bikes are a much more practical ride for events here, far more capable and enjoyable to ride and even worth more when complete due to their extra appeal for riding events.
I've noticed that these bikes are often close to the top score, if not the top, in AHRMA events for the 2 and 3 lines.
So, I am thinking more.... I know, I should not do it. Does a TY175 haul around a 200 lb. (14 stone) person fair enough?
This thread deserve a push up again: A very nice French Terrot trials bike rebuild, which was recently posted on the old continent in France. As there are probably not so many that are stuck with French, but in old trials bikes I thought some information for You just to know what happens elsewhere might be from interest. Here the bike in front: And in natural habitat: And it looks like it works very well for a 500cc bike: Still keeping me speechless ...
After failing to find an aftermarket exhaust, I broke down and built my own. Saved quite a few lbs. but she's still a bit overweight..
