V strom vs Africa Twin

I own a 650 Strom and out of the 26 motorcicles ive owned, the Wee is hands down the most dependable and flexible. Ive put 75k, 50k of that being dirt/gravel! Ive replaced only normal wear items and never been stranded.
Ive always been a Honda enthusiasts, especially a huge fan if the Africa Twins. My question is how thet 650 V Strom compares to the AT. I have no plans on selling my Suzuki but would love to have an additional motorcycle ,possibly a Honda Africa Twin. Can anyone explain to me or compare the similarities and differences between the 2 motorcycles? Basically what I'm looking for is a riders review or comparison of how they actually feel going down the road, trail, interstate and how dependable the Honda is...... because I obviously know already how dependable the Suzuki is. Some other categories I'm interested in is dependability, cost of maintenance and overall customer satisfaction.

There are effectively three AT models: the 650cc RD03, the 750cc RD04 based on it and the redesigned 750cc RD07. I owned a 650 AT which I rode off-road in the Italian Dolomites and on which I rode over 1,000 miles in a day at the end of a 10-day tour around Italy. I have ridden the RD07 750 a bit on and off road. I have no experience of the Wee Strom beyond looking at it - with, I'll admit, little enthusiasm.

I'll assume the OP is aware of the engine performance differential.

IMO ATs are slightly underpowered and a little thirsty given the performance they offer. That's about the only criticism I'd offer. Maybe the RD04 is overweight but the other two are reasonably light for their era. The 03 and 07 both have a chassis well-suited to off-road use. The 04 is the same as the 03 so should be as good. Riding position is great for the average rider. Power delivery is linear with good drive from low revs but little 'hit'. Low-speed balance is superb. A few years ago an Irish rider on an 07 won the Cambrian Rally in Wales by a huge margin. Rally-prepped versions of the 03 and 04 won their class in Paris Dakar.

The bikes are tough but clad in expensive and easily damaged bodywork. Engine reliability is excellent. If the carbs give trouble it's usually the choke plunger, which corrodes and sticks open. Some problems have been reported with the CDI units.

The 07 is a lovely bike to ride on and off-road and will please most riders provided outstanding engine performance is not required. All models look great and are well-finished. Prices in the UK have been strong in the last couple of years as they are a classic in the making.

From the early Nineties, I owned a total of five Africa Twins, one 650 and four 750´s. Sold the last one about 2001. Now I´m on my third DL650, and before the Wee, I had an SV650. Probably some 200-250 thousand kms on those Suzukis, and at least the same amount on AT´s, though I wasnt keeping records of that.

Keep in mind the “latest” AT model (RD07) was the best handling of them all. Actually that model already came out in 1993, and that was in fact its last major change, two decades ago.

It probably still outperforms the Wee off-road. But that´s about it. The DL is a much more modern motorcycle, with FI and optional ABS. Perhaps surprisingly (but not really, when you consider its age) the AT´s handling was really affected disturbingly, when you put the missus and lots of luggage on board. The Wee needs some small tweaking to its suspension, but basically it carries a lot of weight without starting to feel it has a hinge in the middle (that´s what the AT sometimes felt like to me!) Strip their fuel tanks and fairings, and you´ll see why: the Wee has a real sturdy aluminium frame (it also explains on the other hand, why the Wee isn´t so much of an off-road bike). Also fuel consumption on the AT sometimes went sky-high, when you went on the motorways with high revs and lots of luggage. On the Wee, not so much.

The headlights on the AT sucked compared to the Wee. I´ve had buffeting issues on both bikes, but regarding this my newest 2012 Wee has been the best of them all out of the box. The AT had to have its valves checked every 12.000 kms, and at least I often had to ajust them, too, whereas on the Wee the interval is twice as long, and it uses shims, they don´t often need adjusting. Without touching the fuel system the AT suffered more at high altitude.
The AT could be a tiny bit easier for a DIY mechanic, but the Wee´s not a pain either. ABS is just great for road-riding, only available on the Wee.

I really liked the looks of the Africa Twin-models, and its basic technology (even with its few minor glitches like the fuel pump) was just as bulletproof as on the DL these days, both are as reliable as they get. In fact I still love the AT, that bike just somehow had balls, something that the Wee might lack! But on the other hand, I´m not going back, unless Honda makes an updated version of the AT, which frankly does not seem likely. For my use (commuting, weekend rides, longer trips), the Wee does more or less everything the same or better. It´s about 10 hp more powerful, too, despite being 100cc smaller, and uses considerably less fuel. Uses tubeless tyres. Throttle response on new FI models is real nice, too, so it feels even sharper. Carburetors really are a thing of the past nowadays. And if I did a lot of off-road, I wouldn´t choose either of these bikes for that, I´d go for something a lot lighter, maybe a 250-400cc.

Come to think of it, the AT's may not in fact be as bulletproof any more, simply because of their age. Everything eventually wears out. Their production stopped about the same time as the Wee's production started.

(But it´s just my 0.02 on the subject.)

Long admired the AT, and much enjoy my DL now - thank you for the concise summary/observation. Rode a TransAlp some, but never an Africa Twin.

do you have a line on one? Since they weren't (as far as I know) brought to the US by Honda, there aren't many and they came by private importing. Makes it just a bit harder to get parts because Honda dealers don't have part numbers so you might have to get some of the more model specific parts from overseas. There is a thread in Beasts about them, I believe. I had a Transalp and loved it and always thought the AT's looked cooled, but they were harder to find than the TA's.

Lots have changed since 2012,

Well, for the Honda that is.

Currently in Australia the Standard AT is $15,499, and the full powered DL650XT is $12,990 (standard with the updated crash bars).

That is $2,509 difference. What am I missing here? That is an easy call.
The standard AT has less range, no ABS, and 30lbs+ more. Why not spring for the new AT?

ummm...because the 2015 Africa Twin is 1000cc which is a hard comparison to a DL650.?

Admit it, you guys are saying that shit just to piss off everyone in the U.S. that has wanted one of the Africa Twins since day one , aren't you?

How nice this is and how it was riding to and fro on them all those years - when Honda America hadn't had the testicles to bring them in this country, while the BMW GS series just kicked ass! You guys sit there all smug...

I had a test ride on the new CRF1000L Africa twin. Don't get me wrong it's a nicer bike than the DL. NEARLY brought one, but:

Price. ( I wanted ABS + DCT, my wife has one of their DCT bikes and I love that. For me it'd be worth the extra $)
Tubed tires, I really don't want to deal with tubes ever again. (That was the killer for me in the end, I keep thinking how nice it was but I've plugged a lot of tires in the last ten years and it's so much easier than dealing with a hole in a tube - no contest there)
Range.
That and the point that I wouldn't be any faster on the AT than I am on a DL 650. Most of the places I ride speed is limited by my undoubtedly perverted desire to not die rather than engine power . And that's one point I would make, new CRF1000L and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a lot faster off the line than a DL 650 with a lot of k's on the clock, nice engine, but it did take it's time spooling up, if you mostly ride at legal speeds those extra CC's don't buy you much other than extra fuel burn.

So the plan is wear out the DL, it's on 99,000k's now, only another 100,000 or so to go , and hope Honda have seen the light WRT tubed tires in 3-4 years.

If I were buying new, I'd probably still buy the DL 650XT - that's how much I hate tubes

Good points about the AT, no wind buffeting, very comfortable seat, nice riding position, very stable, civilized around town. (And there aren't many litre bikes that aren't a PITA in heavy traffic). Engine and gearbox were very nice, brakes excellent. All round a lovely bike to ride.

Pete

Thanks for the feedback.

The life of the 998cc Twin will be a long one. The 650's engine life is great and the new 1000 V2 will be even more than the V1.

Good point about if you are just doing the speed limit, the DL is plenty good.

The liter engine of the AT will get the edge on 2up, big ol boy riders, lots of gear when 1up, and heavy head wind.

In Australia the full powered DL650XT comes stock with engine guards. They seem ok.

Well, even more has changed since the thread was created.

Well, the 2020 AT is $800 more than last year, which means there is going to be even more of a price gap.

But, the mass was dropped on the 2020.
And the COG. Seat is slimmer too.

Maybe 20lbs stricking distance!!

Honda must feel like a dual sport with her 45mm front forks now.
$14,399
$9,299 XT model.

$5,100 is the new price difference.

This thread is sort of pointless now.

But just for blanks and giggles,
@PeterW
I think the 650XT comes standard with tubeless tyres and a 12volt socket.
I do not believe the Honda does.
Amazing.

So, the ATAS model is closer.
But she is $17,199.

$7,900 more??
Someone tell me I'm bad at math.
Or ask an Admin to lock this thread.

I think it's kind of a Ginger or Mary Ann thing.

The V-Strom 1000 (soon to be replaced by the 1050) is right there for comparison though?

Honestly I don't get the fascination with the spreadsheet hyper-optimization of specs. I did for a while, but I think I've just burned out. Specs are ink on paper or pixels on screen, and I'm beginning to care far more about how a bike feels.

You got that right about feel. There's way more to a bike than its spec sheet.

I had an '04 Vstrom 1000. Fun bike, awesome motor, lousy fairing that produced lift, and a windshield setup (I tried several) that liked using my helmet as bongos. Maybe the newer versions are better, but the gen 1 bikes had some major shortcomings.

I now have a '17 Africa Twin. Awesome bike. More comfortable, less exciting but more usable motor, and easily rectified mild helmet buffeting. Easily more than the sum of its parts. It's hard to pin down what makes this bike so awesome. Seems like everything but the undersprung suspension (I'm 250lbs before gear) was just done right. And even then the damping can actually be made to work for the installed springs!

So I will toss my thoughts into this ring even if it's an old thread.
I've been an adv bike fan and an Africa twin fan for easily 25 years.

I've ridden an XRV, an Africa Twin of the old twin version and both of the later first gen us market ones.
The standard and the adventure sports. One DCT and the other std transmission.

I also have around 50k miles spread across three different vstrom 650.

The AT is more comfortable, slightly bigger way more refined, way better off road.
The fuel economy is much lower, and the performance while plenty of power. It's delivered in that uniquely Honda way. Pretty table top in its torque band, prett unexciting power delivery.
All the controls (and there are A LOT) fall easily to hand or foot.
I didn't mind the seat of the wind protection, but I was on a very twisty road so didn't get a chance to check out how well it fairs at 70mph for two and a half hours.

The DL well, it's a great bike, well sized big enough to be comfortable, but small enough to live with everyday in the city. Much better mpg. And much cheaper to buy into.

Once I have the funds and find the right used DCT, an AT will replace my DL650 and I won't miss the DL until I have to buy gas.

Last spring I rented an Africa Twin in Phoenix for a two day romp across the desert. I have a V-Strom 1000 and while my initial impression of the AT was very positive, I soon soured on it. Not really soured, but just realized that on the highway my V-Strom would run away from it and the Strom just feels all over more powerful and stable. While I agree with the negative comments on the Strom's fairing, and it certainly has other flaws, on the highway I missed it. The AT felt too light and twitchy and high speeds. I didn't ride enough on the dirt to realize its potential, the few dirt roads and uneven trails I hit made me feel like the AT was too tall.

I've ridden the Africa Twin DCT and the regular one as well.

I like the DCT a lot more. I was always in the right gear for the given situation.

The Sport mode 2 was fun.

If I win the lottery I am getting the DCT.

I put a parabellum tall screen on strom cured the head buffet.

To me...the showroom feel (if there is such a thing, lol) was more porky for the V Strom 1000 vs. the Africa Twin. I didn’t get to ride either prior to buying, so I just had to guess which would suit my needs better (90%+ highway commuting).

I think the V Strom 1000 vs. the Africa Twin is an apples to oranges comparison though. One is a highway bike that you can take on gravel roads (VStrom). The other is an off-road oriented bike that you can rack up highway miles on (AT). I would buy a second/dedicated off-road toy before I would take my DL1000 on anything more serious than a fire road. Even then...given the oil filter location, I wouldn’t do that before putting a skid plate on it.

Yup. The only way to really tell how a bike is gong to work out for you is to go ride it.

I just bought a used 2016 Africa Twin DCT. Previously I had a 2014 DL. The VStrom was better on the highway and the AT is better on the dirt. Ride a DCT and you'll never go back. I've been riding 40 years and for some reason I don't miss shifting (hahaha) I love the DCT transmission. It is so smooth. I ride sport mode 3 around town and D on the highway.