The Yamaha Super Tenere XT1200Z Big Thread

So then please enlighten us heathen newbies the proper procedure for starting a Tenere so as to assure it fires every time.

Just so you can tell me what I'm doing wrong, this is how I start all of the fuel injected bikes I have in the garage:

CBR1000 - turn the key on - wait for the fuel pump to stop - push the starter button. It fires right up.

Vstrom 1000 - turn the key on - wait for the fuel pump to stop - push the starter button. It fires right up.

WR250R - turn the key on - wait for the fuel pump to stop - push the starter button. It fires right up.

Tenere - turn the key on - wait for the fuel pump to stop - push the starter button. Ugh

If I'm doing something wrong, please tell me.

OK, first thing, let me ask you a couple of questions...

How are your throttle cables adjusted? Specifically, did you adjust the throttle cable to remove literally all the freeplay at the throttle grip?

Second, have you installed handlebar risers of any kind, and if so, which ones?

Yamaha sends these bikes with a fairly large amount of slack in the throttle cable and the grip, and I have found on a couple of other brand FI-equipped bikes that if folks adjust their throttle cables to literally have zero slack and virtually no freeplay in the throttle grip that they can often experience intermittent starting problems.

That'll get us started...

Dallara



~

I haven't changed anything on the bike except added luggage, heated grips, and an electrical port for my heated gear. The handlebars are stock. No risers.

FYI - the first time it happened was before I added anything. It was bone stock. 2nd and 3rd time were after the mods, but again, nothing major has been touched.

I have tightened my throttle cable, but only to the spec in the service manual. There is still play in it.

As a trials rider, I am very particular about my throttle set up and all of my bikes are set up exactly the same. There is free play in the throttle, but not much. Just enough to where nothing is binding with the throttle fully closed with the handlebars at full turn.

I'm not saying you should adjust your other bikes any differently... Not at all. However, there have been some indications that the throttle position sensors on the Super Tenere and its "fly by wire" set-up are very particular about certain things, so you might just *TRY* backing off the cable adjustment a tiny bit to give the bike just a bit more throttle freeplay, and see if that helps. Yes, even a bit more feeplay than the service manual specs... No certainty that it will help, but it can't hurt to try it.

You mentioned having a problem after some mods you made... When you made any of these mods did you move, shift, or significantly re-route any factory OEM electrical harnesses or leads? Reason I ask is that a European source has found that a very real and significant idling/ignition malfunction was occurring due to some mis-routed wiring harnesses. Once these were routed correctly and not electromagnetically interfering with each other everything was fine.

BTW, I have to leave for a while so I won't be responding further until later this evening.

Dallara




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`

Nothing on the oem wiring has been relocated.

Some little tid-bits of information about me - I've been riding and wrenching on motorcycles for over 30 years. I started out with trail bikes, moved on to motocross bikes, back to trail bikes, and then got into competing in trials. The Tenere is my first "street" bike, but all those years riding and wrenching on dirtbikes has taught me a thing or two about bike setup and reliability. I do all of my own set up. I've *fixed* friend's bikes that have been set up by "professionals". You do not want to be in the middle of the woods and have something go wrong with your throttle cable, or your electrical system. All of my wiring is proper, tight, and secured. I've fixed many-a-bike on the side of the trail - but none of them were mine.

I understand that as you turn the bars closer to lock, the throttle cable tightens itself up. I check for these things. Full lock left, and full lock right. The throttle cable does not bind. I've checked it. I go over everything I know to go over on all of my bikes. They are in perfect working order. I am very particular about everything. I would not hesitate about jumping on any bike I own and taking off across the country with nothing more than an air pressure check. They are all ready-to-ride. Yes, even the Tenere. I've got 10k miles on it and it's only given me trouble those 3 times so far and it does eventually start, it's just annoying. I don't leave maintenance issues unresolved. I don't skimp on anything. If an issue arises, it gets fixed immediately. The right way. There is no duct tape or tie-wire involved.

That said, I am still open to hearing any and all theories as to why this thing acts up from time to time. If it is something I can fix, I'll fix it. If there is something I am doing wrong, I'll change it. I'm not above being wrong.

This is about where I am going with the idea. I had no problem on day one running through most of the common scenario's I had read about the hard start. 30 starts, doing everything "wrong" and it just kept starting. It wasn't until two days later with a slightly limp battery that it didn't start "as fast as I thought it should" and I "instinctively" let go of the button at the "normal" time and retried.

That's when I noticed the bike was a bit gnarly. Left to sit for two days, battery not 100% and there you have a problem if you don't keep it winding until it fires.

So I cycled the bike with the starter a few times on purpose before it giving it a "normal" crank. Then it stuffed up. You could tell it was already a bit unhappy but I had an idea that turning it over with the starter was going to be pumping fuel. I had pretty well determined that just cycling the ECU with the key switch was probably not the issue and neither was the kill switch having much effect.

Some bikes , because of component tolerances emissions and adjustment differences are going to be a bit more susceptible to this, some aren't.

But the sitting around after short runs seems to be one of the main indicators that you may end up having a problem.

I have never had an issue with the bike, but I also am very "Dallara" with it normally.

It normally gets started, warmed to at least 50C and ridden a reasonable distance. All habit. The cars get the same treatment and I have been doing the same for years.

Just an aside, I notice that my wife has some issues starting my car because she is so used to the ECU controlling the starter that she has become used to just engaging the starter and letting go. She hasn't even twigged to the fact that it is the ECU that is deciding when the starter is stopped not her. So in my car she just gets cranky when it won't start after the 4th attempt and ...starts pumping the accelerator. Eventually the frustration and crankiness cause her to keep cranking that extra second or two. I can't convince her that pumping the accelerator has nothing to do with it.

The other interesting part there is that Toyota have opted for an ECU controlled starter. I wonder why?

Don't think it's the cables. The cables on my "never had an issue" bike are the same and have not changed.

The fact that I could induce the bike to have an "issue" by noting some of the stories out there is the issue.

Badly adjusted cables may play a bit a role in some sensor inputs but I will leave that one alone for now.

There may also be a combination of the most "common issue" and unrelated starting issues.

Some people just may have a dicky radiation affected intermittent sensor. Rare but it happens.

No more worries about cars not hearing you, what did you have to do to get it to fit?

A little bit of cutting and welding and its on. Signal lights will have to be changed to avoid being fried.

Nice to have those skills.

I have not followed this thread completly but would like to throw something out to you.I was a salesperson at a large dealership for several years,both new and used.We learned the hard way that fuel injected atv`s would load up and foul plugs if we started ,moved them shut them off with out letting them warm completly.After a week or so this the plugs foul and it wont start without a new one.When the motor is cool it is running on a rich fuel circuit,when it warms it goes switches to normal.I don`t know if if this applies to this problem but a series of short runs can starting ploblems.Hope this can help .

Re: hard starting, as long as it starts in a few seconds after going WFO, WhoTF cares????????????

Of all the things to anguish about.... jeez.

Bragged that I never had the hard start. Bragged that I never wash the bike and then start it to move it. Bragged that I never cycle the key without starting the bike and allowing it to reach operating temp before shutting it down. (~140F)

Then, away from home, after it sat in the hangar all day, I inadvertently hit the starter button and released it before it actually fired up. When she didn't start immediately on the second try, I knew what I was experiencing. Went to half throttle then wide open over about 4 seconds time. She lit. Unhappily though.

So, all I know is she is as reliable as Dallara's and GrahamD's if I don't do anything out of the ordinary. But I won't tempt her again. NEVER touch that button without letting her start AND run long enough to go "full cycle"

Computers. ECU's. FI. FBWire. Hmmmmph. Combined, they are like the garden of eden. Really nice. But don't break the ONE rule they have or they punish you.

Most religions seem to have something to say about that

That is part of the reason for doing it. As you are now aware parts of Australia outside Victoria can be a bit detrimental to your health if you get stuck.

So I want to know the signs and solutions is it happens. I also want to know how it happens so I can avoid it.
because of the interwebs I knew pretty much, in theory, how to deal with it.

I now know how many times the battery will start the bike (30+) without a recharge.

I have also short cycled, started and shut down the bike twice since the hard start and it hasn't missed a beat. The only difference being the battery is now completely charged,

And if I think back on the days of carburetors, I'm not complaining. Really. No more sticky slides, rotating venturis, pump circuits not working, linkages unbolting themselves mid corner...bla bla bla..

I know, all operator error.

They still sell DCOE Webers you know.

Dave6,

Good job on that pipe... did you post that video over here ? Maybe a few customers might be interested in that pipe and sound ? Sounds great !

Yup its in here somewhere between all the hard starting stuff.

Regardless of "know it all" convincing everyone here that it's all in their head and they don't know how to start a motorcycle.

Sure it doesn't happen all the time. But it does happen and it's happened to mine twice and I was never a dealer, mechanic, expert cycle starter, Internet novel writer but it happen twice out of the blue. I won't bore everyone the details with my two no starts but I can go fiddle with the key on any of my suzukis and they crank regardless. Now I am certain I've opened myself up to the so said superior "know it all" who basically just calls us all idiots in a 1000 word novel of BS. I honestly don't care to engage in that stupidity. It's simple, you turn the key, flip the on off switch it either cranks or it doesn't no magic mouth help properly, no luck, no Internet help, it's basic.

Mine simply did it once while stalling up the toy hauler ramp, wot helped that time. Second time much worse. Worked on auxiliary lights one afternoon, bike was hot and had been running. I even cranked it afterward and the cooling fan was on. Week later rolled it out to go for a errand, bam it turned over popped and never fired again. 30 minutes later after pulling the FI fuse and turning it over it fired once I reinstalled the FI fuse.

So there is no problem, hmmm I'd say yes there is and it's in the electronics. Like I said I can go fiddle with both '11 model suzukis anyway I want and they'll come to life with the roar of a tiger.

But keep chasing that start procedure and I'll continue to be entertained here by it all. Some of this bs that's been spewed is quite simply that bs!!

BTW my throttle cables are loose with slack

I love Dallara. :) And he has helped quite a few folks on forums.

Don't think he is a know it all. But he definitely is a know-a-lot!

Having defended him though, I would just LOVE for him to have a hard-start!
It would make my day. (Evil grin)


And I still think Rockport drivers suck! (2nd evil grin)

Pah, that's nothing.

When I has a GSA I followed a thread on UKGSer that rambled on for weeks about the length of time the indicators (turn signals) stayed on. In the UK we have 300m, 200m and 100m count down markers before motorway (highway) exits and the discussion centered around at which marker point it would be best to turn them on.:huh

It was so sad it was funny.

We really have no problems with the Yam

I better check that. We might have a hard signaling problem as well..:huh