What Would You Have Done?

If I slow down I'm there longer, it's pretty simple. It's a good way to get rear ended too.

The OP didn't do the crashing, he asked what "we" would have done, there is always another way to do something...that's why he asked, duh.


I had a big rig come over the center divider almost right on top of me last summer, I reacted and made it through the debris field with only one chunk of concrete to the foot, looked down at the speedo and I had actually sped up, never touched the brakes...if I had grabbed brakes I would have been run over from behind.

I am that good.

That's a good point. Is there any further analysis to this? I definitely will not use brakes in an emergency if there's a vehicle on my ass. In fact I will often split and slow down so the guy riding me will go past. I would also like to find out what you think about that maneuver? I feel safer in between lanes for sure.

Further? I think target fixation by both parties had a hand in this accident. I think that if the OP had focused on something besides the soon to crash rider that he could have kept his speed up and avoided the whole thing.


Like split lanes, lane share? Always, it's saved me more than a few times.

I'd be willing to bet that quite a few other riders rode that very same stretch of road that day under the same traction conditions but somehow manged not to lose the rear end and crash into another vehicle. Why do you suppose that none of them crashed or were "surprised?" (Hint: The offending rider fucked up.)

I make no claims to be the Rossi of the street but if there's even the possibility of questionable traction I learned a LONG time ago to roll it on coming out of a turn but not really start wicking it up until you've almost completed the turn. That way, if you do start to lose traction, your chances (more importantly, MY chances) of being able to deal with it and remain in control are greatly increased.

Blame the road crew, blame the state, blame "surprise." Do anything but blame the rider that caused the accident. I'm surprised nobody's blamed BMW yet.

I wasn't there but it sounds to me as though the OP took the best course of action in this situation. I agree that many times throttle is the "right" escape route but, unless you have a high degree of certainty that it will result in a favorable outcome, you may be adding a lot of kinetic energy to a potential impact.

HINT: sometimes it boils down to a matter of a couple of inches one way or the other, that makes the difference between crashing or just riding along oblivious to the fact that there was anything at all on the road surface. Maybe, just maybe, all those other riders you speak of, just missed where the sand was. Why the hell is everyone here so pompous and quick to proclaim that the guy who threw it away was an irresponsible no-good POS scum-bag?
NONE of us were there!!!!! Maybe the other guy WAS the asshole! But, just because he had the misfortune to crash and start the chain of events, I don't think anyone that wasn't there should automatically deem him a scum-bag that deserves to get his face punched in by "Larryboy", or anyone else for that matter. If it had happened to me, I'm sure I WOULD NOT be to happy, but unless the other guy was doing a wheelie standing on the pegs or some such dumb shit, I wouldn't automatically assume that he was being an irresponsible dip-shit until I could (hopefully) examine the situation a bit.
That would be after I stopped yelling & screaming & jumping up & down like a mental case!

Chris

AaaaHaaaa...you would have a reaction to being hit head on in your own lane by another motorcycle!!!

Who wouldn't?
But, my first reaction wouldn't be to knock the other guy's teeth down his throat. UNLESS, he was doing something obviously STUPID.

Chris

sue BMW...there may have been a final drive failure here, no?

As the OP I would like to thank you for your replies and also clarify a few things:

1. Both the guy who hit me and myself were well aware of the hazards of thrown up gravel on twisty roads (at any time of year) and the hazard of left over winter sand. We had both ridden about 50 miles of pristinely clean road in opposite directions before he encountered sand in THE ONLY passing lane on this whole highway. So I can forgive him for not even LOOKING for sand in that passing lane - I wouldn't have.
2. We both had a lot of time to look and talk before help in the shape of a cop and a tow truck arrived. Let me assure you that thin coating of sand was very hard to see when we were standing there.
3. The guy who hit me was passing a few motorhomes at a reasonable (except for that sand) rate of speed. Had our positions been reversed, I'm pretty sure I would have closed the throttle when my back tire swung out and lowsided. This guy was a good experienced rider who did everything he could to regain control.
4. I don't think "target fixation" by either of us caused the crash. I aimed to the right and braked hard. He tried to get the bike under control and then braked hard when he got shot into my lane when his back tire hooked up.
5. Perhaps of interest - maybe a half hour after the crash I wondered "did my head hit the pavement?" Sure enough, there was a nice gough in my Schuberth. The helmet saved me from a bad headache if not something much worse.
6. I'm a little surprised that none of you seem to place the blame on the road crew or whoever employed them. If any of you have the computer skills I lack to determine whether there were other accidents at this passing lane of the Bear Tooth Pass road in July 2008, your research posted here would be most welcome.
7. In retrospect, ANYTHING except slightly harder braking (real head on collision) would have been better, in fact made this a "close call." Don't think I can agree with general advice not to brake hard when faced with an unpredictable situation though.

I welcome other opinions. Hopefully we learn through this forum to think through our options before they are there in real life. Well, actually I think we just react and think about it later. But it is entertaining reading and writing on cold winter nights.

just reading by the face of the details presented...

rider A lost control of the bike with a contributing factor of road debris.
rider B was unable to avoid the resulting collision.

officer not returning a call?
contact the supervisor of the officer. usually by calling the department.
if no result there, run it up the chain till you get results.

officers will often contact the entity responsible for road maintenance in the area where some hazardous debris is. ultimately, its the responsibility of that entity to remove any hazardous debris. that could be state, county, city or even a contracted agency. only way to know would be to contact someone in the public service department, inquire if they are in fact responsible for the area in question... and make them aware, or ask if its been resolved.

granted this occurred in 2008 and this is just for speculation.

Thank you for putting up this post! It sort of bears out my argument that the other guy MAY NOT have been doing anything stupid, it seems, according to you (the ONLY one who knows!) that he was just riding along and BAM, bad luck rears it's ugly mother fucking head for not just him but the two of you. Everything in life is a matter of timing.
Glad neither one of you got hurt and you'll both ride another day!
As for the road department, I would think that's it's hard, if not downright impossible, to get each and every patch of sand off the road. Especially the ones that, as you stated, were very hard to see "when you were just standing there". I somehow doubt that the DPW guy's get out of the trucks and walk along the roads to make sure they get the roads "race track" clean. And WHY would anyone even expect that?

Did your bike get replaced yet?

Chris

Actually, the real problem was that both lanes of this road WERE "race tract clean" in both directions for 50 miles. I'd wager the other guy wouldn't have missed seeing the sand if there was a bit every fourth or fifth corner. Instead, he was faced with just this one passing lane where the road crew didn't take the trouble to make the necessary two passes. And yeah, got another bike: 1992 K100RS.

Glad to hear you got another bike!
I guess the odds of that same scenario playing out again for you must be about 100,000,000 to 1. Unless you ride Deals Gap all the time, then I think one stands a pretty good chance of getting taken out by a bike crashing coming from the other way.
Enjoy!!!!!

Chris

I'm guessing that you're either are a similar dumbfuck who wiped out and blamed it on something else other than your own lack of riding skills or perhaps your'e just another run-of-the-mill dumbfuck.

Personally, I believe in the now so foreign concept of taking personal responsibility for one's actions and outcomes.

If I lost in to a turn, washed out and was lucky enough to only total somebody else's bike, then I'd be man enough to own up and take personal responsibility and not blame it on someone/something else. Why is that so hard to understand?

At this point I leave: Arguing with an idiot on The Internet just makes you look like an idiot. You have that in spades.

"My lack of riding skills"................
I'm certain that you most definitely would not have fucked up like the "offending rider" under the exact same conditions, because when someone is "riding"at speeds just slightly faster than one can run, it's actually hard to get high-sided or low-sided in a turn. You, I would imagine, could have hit black ice and not fallen off.
Oh, and...............Thanks for leaving!
Buh,bye!

Chris

I'd punch myself right in the face if I did something like that.

Duck and Larryboy,

I guess I must practice my communication skills as you BOTH HAVE THIS BACKWARDS. The guy who hit me DID accept responsibility. More importantly, so did his insurance company.

I AM THE ONE who believes most of the "fault" lay with the company that swept the road. When you have just ridden 50 miles of narrow, twisty mountain road that is "race track clean," you really don't expect the lone PASSING lane on the whole damn road to be covered with a thin layer of sand. At least I don't - and he didn't.

There is no question that the guy was passing at what should have been a very sane speed and that all his reactions when the bike started to slide out were the right ones. That is why I have trouble believing ours was the only MC crash on this little section of road that year.

Am I finally making myself clear?

And then your insurance would cancel you immediately for making ANY admission of that kind.

Interesting thread...

First & foremost I'm glad you're both OK.

I started racing MX at 11 & turned pro at 16. in my 20s I also spent some time racing speedway with a steel shoe on my left foot & power sliding the rear while counter steering the front. I live in the Colorado Rockies where it can snow in July and road gravel, sand, & boulders can appear out of nowhere at any time. Last fall on a 65F degree day, came around a north facing corner & narrowly missed a patch of ice. There had not been any snow. Just some water that ran across the road & night time freezing temps on this north facing corner left a 3' x 2' patch of ice.

When I was 18 I stopped at a stop light. When it turned green I turned left and laid my bike down when the front tire hit a 3" puddle of motor oil that leaked from a car. I was going less than 5mph, no damage, lucky there wasn't any on coming traffic to run me over. I didn't see the oil cause I was looking ahead & scanning for oncoming traffic.

My point is, on a road bike we all must expect the unexpected and the reality is road crews can only do so much.

You asked "what would you do?" I don't know. When I ride, my body reacts without thinking. Sometimes I accelerate. Sometimes I back off, stand the bike straight up and brake hard. Sometimes I do both. What a rider does is dependent upon his/her skill set. if you have to think about what to do, it's too late. I definitely tend to ride defensively and try to keep to the right track on blind corners. That said, zipping through twisters on my Hyper can be irresistible!

If you're really serious about improving riding skills & reaction time to handle the unexpected, then working with a pro on a closed course might be an option. I know of road racing, MX, and "drift schools" that are perfect for acquiring better riding skills and becoming a safer rider. Great of you to ask what others would do, but applying the techniques takes practice.

Again, glad you are both OK. Very fortunate that your run in was not with a car! This could have easily been any one of us!

The Beartooth pass is in my back yard. That road racks up bikers every year ( mostly noob Harley riders) It is a road with tight switchbacks, steep drop offs and lots of traffic in the summer.

Riders must beware it is a dangerous mountain pass. As i see it the road crew does an excellent job with the funds they get.

Now is everybody willing to pay a toll for improved conditions?

With that said it is where i go to improve my riding skills