BergDonk's DR650s and the Odd Tangent

Hi Grifter,

Some brief backgroud, and then some specific answers.

Detailed planning for the trip started out about 18 months ago by Rowdy_IM and some other mates from Jindabyne. 1 x 4wd and 3 x bikes. I then joined in and a few of my mates from Canberra got involved too, so then I felt the need to increase the level of 4wd support, so another mate from Canberra and his partner in a 4wd and my wife in mine. With another bike joining in at the last minute we had 3 x 4wds and 8 x bikes, 1 x Mitsubishi Triton, 2 x Ford Couriers, 2 x orange 625s, 1 x 690, 1 x XR650 and 4 x DR650s. Another DR650 with dedicated 4wd support also joined in late, but then pulled out near the get go due to a death in the family, you never know...

The ride officially started at Blinman on 06/06, so it was optional how we got there. The 690 and DRs rode out, the others were more time poor so trailered. The plan was to head to Alice, check out the Finke Desert Race, then cross the Simpson to Birdsville where those with more time, Rowdy_IM, AdventureXR, myself on bikes and Moggy and Dad in his Triton would head for the Kimberly, and rest home.

With our experience of the western end of the Simpson getting to Alice, and the impossibility of a full crossing due to the flooding of Eyre Creek, we decided to split at Alice, and as stated before, I unfortunately had to join the early finishers too. We again split in Leigh Creek, as Dave, myself and wife Sandra still had a few more days available than the rest of the early finishers who had to beeline for home.

We were setup for most anything, and we carried all gear on the bikes other than some of us opted to have the camping stuff, including extra food, on the 4wds. I used a Exped mattress and Sac2 sleeping bag and had a Speedy popup tent to share with my wife in the 4wd, and a hiking tent on the bike for when/if we separated. The 2 Couriers were set up much the same. Both are Crew cab 2.5 TDs. I fitted upgraded and strengthened suspension, 160 litres of water, 140 litre diesel tanks, new mud tyres, sand flags, roll out awnings, full recovery gear etc etc. They both had over 240,000 kms and gave no problems.

We also had a training/practice day for the 4wds near here down in the river sand practising bogging and recovering the vehicles using sandtrax, and snatch straps etc. Good for the riders to know how to hook up a 4wd too, cause then they can help.

Each rider had a 900/550/400 space case on the 4wds for carrying their gear.


Sounds like a Hell of a ride Steve. Congrats on getting back OK!
Mud riding is tough ... would full knobby tires have helped you out any?
Probably, but then for the other 6,500 kms? I would like to try some others out there one day to find out.

The main problem I had when the clutch failed was vision. I was wearing my Arai DS and moisture gets on the inside of the visor when its cracked for ventilation. I switched to some industrial safety glasses, but they also became an issue. As vision deteriorates, speed reduces, and the tyres stop clearing, and it all gets worse. Once you have no eye protection, mud and rain is in your eyes, and the speed is less again, and its night and dark too, so picking the terrain is tricky. In daylight, the next day, other line/route options off to the side were apparent. And my HID and LED lights are great, but when there is nothing for them to reflect off other than rain drops, they don't solve the problem. If I know I'm going to crash, I prefer to do it slowly :eek1

Those 50/50 Mitas are good, long lasting tires but not much good in sand or mud, eh?
They are OK in sand and pretty much everywhere else too, but mud is definitely outside their design brief. They are nevertheless a great all rounder, and I will use them again. The life/value equation is fantastic, and I know of no better all rounder, but then I haven't tried them all either. I think that I'll stick to MT21s up front too. I have a 606 to finish off first, but I think I prefer the MT21 as an all rounder that still has some knob.

Surprised you lost your clutch ... but I guess having the rear wheel locked and not knowing it ... not good. :eek1 With a good knobby I find that if I can manage some speed once in a while, I can fling off built up mud. But sometimes the mud is just too sticky.
This stuff is sticky......

I remember early in the thread you mentioned:
"I acquired a clutch cover gasket just in case, but the original came off clean so its been recycled. The clutch friction plates looked fine, and measured to spec. The steels were somewhat blue, so been hot in the past. Works OK, so until next time."
Perhaps the previously heated plates were almost dead. It was only one plate that lost its friction material, so I kept the rest just in case. I'll blame the previous owner of the bike for the previous clutch cooking And the original gasket is OK still too.

Only thing I can think of regards repeated hub bearing failure is alignment issues. Bent axle? Tweaked Swing arm? Messed up Hub? All of the above?
Agreed, but it all seems fine. I've checked the axle for runout, and considered ADV8s views too. Checked with and without rubbers, put new rubbers in etc. So far the double row bearing holds up fine, but its now at about the kms the originals failed at, so from now on is the test I guess.

We haven't heard about too many hub bearing failures on the BIG DR thread, mostly from you Aussie guys. But you guys ride hard in harsh conditions. We Americans just ride 50 mph with the Harley guys on straight, smooth roads.
Yeah, right.

I've done a couple of road trips in years past (on 4 wheels) through some of the western US, California, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, and Idaho and played on some of your off road terrain. Beautiful country. One of my regrets, I think, was not taking up an offer of a free ride made by a tour company I bumped into in Ely Nevada one night in the mid 1990s. They offered me a DR350 and helmet, maybe gloves, for the following day but I had no other gear available, and I felt that to ride in the desert needed more, and I had to be at work in Denver in a few days, so

Your sealed roads are smooth though, one pothole seems to provoke a 100 km re-seal Often wished I had my road bike.

I have two sets of wheels for my mostly stock DR. One set:40,000 miles,
and a set from a '97 with 32,000 miles. All bearings "feel" just fine to me. I keep checking them and expecting them to fail or fall apart.
When I ride around here, it can be tough terrain. I have a 10 km single track in my yard, starting just outside my shed door, and then I have 100s of kms of fire trails and single track just outside my gate. Most people call the tracks here 'rocky', so all bits of bikes and bodies get a work out

I've never done many deep water crossings or Ocean/Beach/sea water riding, but plenty of Desert and high mountains. Still ... will definitely be carrying spare wheel bearings along on longer international rides.
My daily maintenance includes a wheel and cush bearing check. Just give them a twist, and you can do the cush by pushing the sprocket sideways with your foot if you want to keep your hands clean.

Curious where you guys slept. Bush Camping?
Bit of a mix, the odd motel, cabin, or camping in a van park, or just in the bush. We were equipped for a number of days without access to 'civilisation' if needed, but ahot shower at the end of the day for us old arthritic sufferers is nice if you can get it.

Did you carry cooking gear? Beer?
Mostly in the 4wds which all have fridges or coolers. A couple of the guys carry cooking gear on the bikes, but I can live without heating food or drink, so don't bother.

Temps were down to -2 degC overnight a few times, and daytime temps up to about 15 degC.

What was the longest stretch between fuel/water stops?
If we had done the Simpson crossing, its about 500 kms, and recommendeed to allow 600 kms for possible deviations.The biggest day I did between fuel availability was Leigh Creek to Innamincka, across the the northern Flinders to Mt Hopeless and up the Strezlecki. Still had 100 kms in the tank after 547 kms. Other big days without possible services in between were Wentworth to Yunta via Chowilla and Dangalli, a beautiful ride in the sand, at 369 kms and Yunta to Blinman at 342 kms. If I'd got to the Tanami, we needed to plan for 1,000 kms as the road house at Rabbit Flat is now closed. Some other possibilities perhaps, but I will find out what actually happened when Rowdy_IM and AdventureXR650 get home. I was planning to be with them, ah well.

Did you have bail out points to get to a town if you had a problems or an injury?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Must be nice to have 4 wheel support. What a luxury!
Was great, especially as my wife was in one of them

Did they follow along with you or take different paved routes and meet you?
Mostly yes, but we had plans to separate hence all bikes and riders needed to be self sufficient.

do you guys take pictures?
Yep, will post some later.

I have unfinished business outback,
Steve

Very interesting reading... both the ride and the lead up work on your bike. Thanks.

How did you find travelling with such a large group? (I find the pro's & con's to be - great fun around the campfire but too slow on the track)

I can relate to the night riding & mud saga and agree 100% with your comment "if I know I'm going to crash, I prefer to do it slowly". Coming off the bike during daytime riding is an 'if' state of mind for me... but with the combo of night + rain + mud/sand + goat tracks, my mindset seamlessly shifted to 'when'. Fortunately I didn't come off.

My mini report from a ride on the other side of the country around similar dates to yours http://drriders.com/topic874.html - second last post.

And, my DR story http://drriders.com/topic1140.html

Cheers

Big group? Yep, pros and cons. Fortunately we were/are pretty much all on the same wavelength, and chewing dust is not something any of us are keen on, so being strung out is OK, (and its only a race if you win!). Getting away in the morning is the hardest, but all we really needed to do was know what the day's route and target destination was. We might have a few regroups enroute, or just wait until the lunch stop or camp site. By pairing up, and all having UHF CBs it works OK. The 4wds don't travel too much slower and were never far away anyway. And being fully self sufficient, we could vary Plan A anyway as the day proceeded by applying Plan B. (FWIW Plan B is to change Plan A)

The rule of "more riders means a slower trip" nevertheless applies. The upside to our group was that everyone in the 4wds could ride if needed, and amongst our group we had 3 fitter/machinists, a diesel/plant mechanic, an electrician and handyman me. We figured if we couldn't fix it on the trail, it couldn't be fixed on the trail.

One of the connundrums we had is sight seeing vs riding. There is no doubt its easy when in the car to pull up somewhere and go for a walk to check something out. My Gaerne Adventure boots are good, and so much easier to walk in than my Tech 8s, but hiking up Standley Chasm, or around the Kings Canyon rim, or through the Olgas is so much easier in proper shoes without knee braces, and gear security is not an issue either. Is it the journey or the (multiple) destinations?

Seems we got caught up in the same weather front :huh and our DR stories aren't too dissimilar either. Keep an eye on your rear bash plate mounts. I'm assuming yours is the first 'production' DR model? I've emailed Matt about mine, and its my recommendation that everyone be advised of the possibility of failure. In hindsight, I should have beefed them up before failure.

FWIW I got out yesterday on my 650 Berg with my brother on his XR400. I hadn't ridden it for a few months, and you forget. Compared to the DR, its a scalpel in the bush, and it'll kill you if you twist the throttle inadvertantly 63 hp at the knobs, and 122 kg wet will do that And the supension needs to hit stuff at speed to work

But the DR will go day after day after day with negligible maintenance, and the ergos mean that its comfortable to do it too. And the suspension compromise I've achieved means it can go slow, or fast and keep in shape. I even have to admit that its now more comfortable than my 1400GTR, aka Concours 14, with its own improved seat, for all day rides.

Steve

Sounds like you guys have got this well figured. We use the buddy system too ... even in larger groups. We spread out but you stay with your partner, whether he is faster or slower. This has saved a few guys over the years.

Since about 1983 a friend of mine has led Baja rides. It's always an invational and limited to 10 or 12 riders. We've tried larger groups and just had huge clusterfucks and disasters. We've also tried chase trucks. Good and bad. Mostly, this group do not use any trucks ... but we have had to send someone back to the USA to get a truck to pull someone out of the desert.

But Baja is not as big or remote as the area you covered in Oz. But it has it's moments. Most trouble there starts when guys think they are pro racers. We've had bad crashes and injuries including: broken back, legs, arms, collarbone, ankle, wrist, concussion and on and on .... and we even travel with a Doctor ... sometimes TWO Doctors! But our main Doc is a drug addict and mostly uses Morphine and Duct tape to deal with injuries.

He is now in his 70's ... the old fart is still riding like a maniac.

We've left guys in the desert at night, had guys arrested (they deserved it most times) and had trouble at Mexican Whore houses involving guns.
But somehow we keep going back. Over and over. Our rides are typically only 12 to 14 days and cover between 1400 and 2000 miles depending on the route. Our main man knows all the secret routes and NOOB killer routes. I'm really to old to hang now. I haven't been in several years. It's very tough.


Steeper than it looks ... tough on my XR250

FWIW, here are a few snaps of the trip.


Loaded to go, 4 deg with heavy fog and misty rain. All gear aboard, except the tent roll, which is in the 4wd.


Heading off to Canberra to meet up with the other early starters.


On the Cotter Road, on edge of Canberra and the early group is formed and about to head for Tumut and Narranderra.


The first carb rebuild on Dave's bike at the servo in Naranderra.


Lunch stop in Dangalli enroute to Yunta.


The clouds are gathering as we head for Blinman.

Still heading for Blinman.


And still enroute to Blinman


the full crew is now together and is preparing to leave Blinman.

A lunch stop at the Marree Pub. The cloud has eased a bit, but not for long....


Locked up solid, wheel, counter shaft, etc, 3.5 kms from Mt Dare enroute from Dalhousie with a burnt out clutch as a result. I ended up buying the trailer and we dragged it to Alice to effect repairs and get out of the rain and mud.


Ready to leave the Mt Dare Pub. Stopped raining for a few minutes...

After Alice the group split and the long termers headed north, and we headed west towards the rock via Glen Helen and Kings Canyon. And the weather was great.

Off to Leigh Creek.






And across the Gammon Ranges aka northern Flinders.


Looking back at the Gammon Ranges.


Camping by the Cooper at Innamincka.

The Innamincka causeway was just opened the day before. About 3-400 mm deep, and flowing quickly. We didn't have to get the bikes across, so went another way.


Cooper Creek to the lower left. Note the 2010 flood marker up the tree trunk. No wonder we couldn't get there last year!


The other crossing. Apparently it was about a metre over the handrail last year!


Off to Tibooburra.


And the old gold mining town of Milparinka.

And eventually home a couple of days later.

And I managed to break something else!

The speedo stopped working on the last day of the ride and its only this week I've got around to having a look. I assumed a broken cable but it proved to be the nylon drive gear was stripped of its teeth which gummed up the pinion driven gear and cracked the housing.

Off to the wrecker yesterday for a replacement, and after hunting through a box of Suzi speedo drives, found one thats OK. Interestingly, the wrecker reckons that the failure is not uncommon, and there were quite a few drives in his box with the drive gear missing that backed up his statement.

Might fit a Vapor or similar next time, and with hindsight, maybe should have this time.

Steve

Nice pics Steve

that mud is mindbogglingy sticky hey? I ditched a bike trailer in that stuff once. was towing it with a 2wd hiace couldn't steer out of the spoon drain, when I slipped and slid around the back to unhook I couldn't see the trailer just a big poo colored meteorite hooked up to the van

you up for some coastal exploring and a WA trip? not too much mud I promise

I've broken a couple speedo cables and one speedo drive on this DR and another earlier one. The last two cables broke because the speedo cable routing was not correct and the guide was out of position. When you get off road and start hammering over miles and miles of Whoops, the cable gives up.

Vapor is a better way to go for sure. I've used Bicycle computers. Cheaper, not fancy but do the job.

Mud is like concrete :eek1

I think i'm going back to the Flinders next month for the TK memorial ride, not sure yet, so nearly half way to Esperence if I did, Hmmmmmmmm

Steve

Which is why I assumed it'd be the cable, and even have a spare in the shed, expecting it to fail at some point. Its stretched a bit with the longer forks too, but its fine.

I still have a bicycle computer on the old XT250 and my 501 Berg, and used them in the past on my IT250 and IT490. And I have a vapor on the wifes KLX300. For road riding though I prefer an analogue speedo and the stock DR one is fine, and I can get a readout from the GPS too to calibrate it.

Enforcement of constantly varying speed limits over here is stupid. People spend their time watching the speedo and not the road. The road safety philosophy here is based on speed, fatigue and alcohol, ie obey the posted speed limit, and don't drive when asleep or drunk and everything will be OK and we all know there is more to it than that, but not the road safety behaviourist experts in their ivory towers in Sydney, who can't drive/ride themselves, rant, rant :fyyff

Steve

Been out to the shed this afternoon to do some prep for a possible ride on the DR650 on Sunday. All good, except the cush drive bearing, the fancy SKF double row, is on the way out. Its got 9,919 kms adventuring on it and I can move the sprocket teeth about 2-3 mm laterally, so I've swapped it for a new one. Wheel bearings are still tight.

I've also checked the swingarm pivot alignment with the axle and frame and its all within 1 mm, which was about as good as I could measure it. It would no doubt last longer, and I don't think the double row would collapse as quickly as the single rows did previously, but putting a new one in makes me feel happier. I last checked it about 1,000 kms ago in White Cliffs and it was still tight. New cush rubbers went in with the double row too.

I was hoping it'd last longer!
Steve

This is turning out to be quite a mystery! Wow! Maybe next time you get it apart you could compare it to a "known good" swing arm, frame and Hub?
Got to be something not lined up, something bent ... no? After all the new bearings and Cush rubbers I can't believe the bearing is going bad again so soon.

I have NO CLUE what it could be ... but I hope you can suss it out and let us know the outcome.

We have six DR650's in my riding group ... and mine makes 7 (40K miles). Most are around 20,000 miles and do a fair bit of easy off road and lots of hard riding on twisty, beat up paved California roads and long 300 mile slogs on highway.

We've had a couple minor problems among these bikes ... but no rear hub bearing failures or wheel bearing failures. Quite a bit of rain riding but not much mud riding.

Could it be that MUD is the enemy of the DR650? I know it's hard on brake pads ... but bearings should be sealed pretty well against it ... at least for a while anyway. What you reckon?

Will be watching to see what you can come up with! Good luck!

There was no evidence of any of the crap that its been through getting past the dust seal. The grease between the outer seal and the bearing was fresh and uncontaminated. The spacer on the inside and the grease around it protecting the bearing, and the cush rubbers were all clean, and no evidence of any crud near the bearing.

Its also the second swingarm on the bike, one I acquired to get reinforced and not have the bke off the road while it was done. Issues occurred with the original arm too, so I don't believe its the swingarm. And as noted, the pivot to axle measurement is square to <> 1 mm. The wheels also align front to rear by the classic string method, and the front rim is centred in the forks. I've put the rear axle in a pair of V blocks and checked its trueness, which is OK too. Might have to get the frame and everything checked in a jig. I guess I need to sleep on it a bit more.

I had set up a complete spare cush hub and sprocket so a simple swap and its ready to ride again. I've got a couple of new bearings coming from the UK at the right price from ebay. The second one I got here was $75, and 2 from the UK is $47.74 delivered :huh

I think I can live with a 10,000 km service life, if I can depend on it in the interim. Otherwise the last trip was almost fault free. A loose handlebar mount to the triple clamp meant the front wheel was moving about a bit relative to the left handlebar in the sand. 10 min fix with an Allen key. And a leaking fork seal after some wet sand. Fixed in another 10 mins total after acquiring a plastic drink bottle and cutting it up to make a seal scraper. All KTM bits anyway. Speedo now reads 32,520 kms.

On another subject, this last trip was in the company of a completely stock DR650 that had only some luggage and a Safari tank fitted. Airbox with snorkel intact, and untouched carb. FWIW the fuel economy comparison was to his advantage by about 10%. I know I can go leaner with my FCR, and I guess that is now the incentive, to match a stock bike, but even so, for me, its worth the 10% penalty for the improved rideability if i do nothing.

Steve

So I have received an email that ADV8 has posted:

---Quote (Originally by BergDonk)---
I can move the sprocket teeth about 2-3 mm laterally
---End Quote---

Did you do as I suggested 3 or so bearings ago,nup.
***************

But I can't see it on the thread. Nevertheless, I've done asearch on ADV8s post re 'cush' and found the following:
http://advrider.com/forums/search.php?searchid=8530917

Am I right in distilling from these posts that you are using a different bearing than stock, but you don't mention what it is and why, and you also suggest to check the clearance of the carrier without rubbers installed for excess movement?

This recent failure was on the second hub I got, admittedly second hand from the wrecker, and it had about the same play as the original, but a loose fit for the bearing as noted above.

What do you consider acceptable play in the hub when fitted with no rubbers? What spec bearing are you using, a looser one like a C3 perhaps?

Thanks
Steve

Thought I might do a bit of an update. Now at 35,xxx kms and counting. Got a Flinders trip planned for April, and maybe a Cairns trip in May. In the meantime, not much to report other than been riding and done routine maintenance, with a couple of exceptions:

SCREEN
Got a new SFB (Screens For Bikes) screen for my DR before Christmas to replace the previous one which broke. A log 'spear' hidden in some ferns while I was attempting to avoid a bog hole was spotted at the last moment. I dodged my upper body left and under it, sort of, and it missed my heart and took out my screen, GPS, mirror and throttle cable, nicked the rhs armpit of my jacket, and soiled my undies! Not my time yet…

Ordered the screen on line Sunday night before Christmas, contacted SFB Monday am with CC and had the replacement here Weds. Excellent service.

I'd never ridden my DR without the screen because it came delivered with it when I bought it, and the PO was about as tall as I am and it seemed to work OK. After riding it home without, I decided that I needed a replacement because it just works so well. I was offered the unbreakable version but decided against it as something has to break, and if it doesn't, maybe its more expensive in the end?

I like the SFB screen, and their service.

FRONT RIM
The stock front DID rim did what they do, ie crack at the seam. They did this on my ITs and my 501 Berg in years gone by. For trail bashing I used to get my boilermaker brother to weld them up, but it was only ever temporary. For an adventure bike when far from home I wanted it right, so sourced an ex RMZ Excel rim on ebay and a hd stainless spoke kit from JTR and laced it up yesterday.

It 1.6” rather than the stock 1.85” but I’ll live with that and don’t expect to be able to tell the difference. I will find out


TYRES
So far I've got about the following out of rears:
2 x E07 10,000 kms
E09 Dakar 6,000 kms
606 3,500 kms

Fronts
2 x MT21 7,000 kms
1 x E09 Dakar 7,000 kms
1 x 606 7,000 kms with perhaps 2-3,000 usable left

I've got a rear Michelin T63 in the shed cause it was cheap on the day and plan to use on the Flinders trip, and I've got a V Rubber VRM140 too for the shed. Its an MT21 clone, DOT approved, cheap and should go about 3,000 based on a mate's experience with them.

I've also got a Pirelli Scorpion Rally front coming soon to try.

Of what I've used so far, the 606 on the front is preferred, followed by the MT21 and the E09 a distant last. The 606 works even better backwards too, more stable in the soft, and doesn't cup as bad. If I didn't turn it around I'd have struggled to get 4,000 kms before it drove me nuts. Gotta turn the MT21s too, but they are not directional.

Up back, they all work, grip vs life applies, and perhaps the E09 is the best compromise so far. The T63 @ $110 may be better value. An E09 Dakar nearby on the same day was $170. Flinders trip in April will determine it, probably paired with the Scorpion Rally, should be about a 5,000 kms trip.

Up back, once the 606 wears a bit, it is about the same as the E09 for grip, and is probably worse as it wears more. The E09 grips more consistently as it wears, keeping a squarer edge on the tread blocks.

And FWIW, the T63 was moulded made in Czechoslovakia just like the Mitas, so presumably out of the same factory. As others have noted, it looks a lot like the E09.

Cairns in May will have an E07 up back I suspect.

FCR JETTING
Did some more refinement, leaning it a bit more last year, so a few more kms per tank, usually 600 – 700 kms, and still runs good.
Now at:
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2.25​

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</td> <td style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom: solid windowtext .5pt;border-right:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm; height:12.75pt" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom">

9​

</td> </tr> <tr style="height:12.75pt"> <td style="border:solid windowtext .5pt;border-top:none; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;height:12.75pt" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom"> Start
</td> <td style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom: solid windowtext .5pt;border-right:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm; height:12.75pt" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom">

85​

</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Cut airbox, FMF PB header, at nominally 800 m, but fine at sea level too.

SUMMARY
All the upgrades and fixes have so far worked nicely for me, although some are still a bit of a mystery, like the cush hub. Got a new one on the way and will fit it with a fresh double row bearing for the upcoming adventures. This DR650 is giving me as much, or more, pleasure as any bike I’ve had over the years and it now does exactly what I want it to do. Its comfy, pretty reliable, relatively cheap to run, and goes anywhere. Just hope 3rd gear hangs in there....

Steve