Christini AWD 450 DS Thread

Dude!...and other dudes! Give it a rest.

Maybe more substantive discussion about long term reliability, parts availability, service, more pros/cons, and other descriptive tidbits would be more useful to understanding how this system will or won't work for most of us as dirt riders. Man, I clicked on this thread thinking I was going to really learn some real world application of this concept and found pages of a full blown school playground fracas over terminology and semantics with a few hidden gems of real information. I'm a gearhead too, but I don't require a full and total comprehension of all of Newton's laws to ride my dirt bike. Can we get back to our regularly scheduled programming involving how this system is working and can work for real world off road use?

Anyone know how/if the Christini system compares to the Yamaha 2-Trac system they used on the Dakar 450 they raced several years ago with some notable success?

http://www.mcnews.com.au/testing/yamaha/wr-2trac/page1.htm

Here is a link... sounds like the christini system is better.

it's awesome that Christini is selling a dual sport

Here's some info about the KX Christini I have. It is one of two made from 09 EFI 450s. They had wanted to use the KLX450R, but the starter on the left side was an obstacle to overcome so the KXs were used. I'm glad that the EFI is on my bike, altitude change goes unnoticed. The gears for motocross were a little tall for this old guy and I didn't want to gear it too low on the topend. The Rekluse clutch solved the tall gear problem as well as the flameout that was a pain at times.

Early on I had a problem with engagement of the gears in the gearbox behind the frame. I called Steve Christini, he figured out the problem, it was a clip missing inside. He sent the new parts I needed that day, in less than a week it was back together. Steve is one of those guys that makes things right no hassles.

When I changed the front tire for the first time, I was nervous about parts falling out,,, or some complex process,,,it was simple and just as easy as a regular frontend.

The system is simple and should last as long as the rest of the bike. I will repeat this over and over,,,,the Christini All-Wheel-Drive is a brilliant setup. It works for the right application,,,which to me is extreme conditions where traction and help of the front wheel pulling is your riding condition. I would like to shoot some video, but I have no personal photographer.

I cannot speak about the new bikes,,, I would buy one if I weren't so happy with the KX. The price of the new bikes is very reasonable,,,in fact a steal.

From my source (shared with you, TNC, by PM), the Yamaha at Dakar was a collaborative effort with Ohlins, with ". . . a small high speed hydraulic pump above the gearbox then connect[ed] to the gearbox sprocket and [with] an efficient high speed motor on the front wheel together with a reduction gear," according to Ohlins.

This information from my riding partner, Hans.

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EDIT: Just saw Byron555's post and link above; appreciate the info!

I live right near Christini, emailed them yesterday to see if I can stop by and check the place out. I'll let everyone know if I do.

It's also noted in the "Testing the Ultimate Supermoto" link provided a page or two ago...

There are some editor notes on it if I recall.

Here is a link to the Ohlins 2WD system (that is what they call it). It uses hydraulics versys chain/shaft that Christini uses, but it is slightly heavier. It was fairly successful in the Dakar rally, even though it was mounted on a 450cc bike against larger competition. It won a few stages, mostly in wet conditions. They also installed it on a Yamaha R1 street bike and found it ran faster lap times even on dry pavement!?

http://www.ohlins.com/Checkpoint-Ohlins/2WD---The-Complete-Story/

Here is another 2WD bike called the 2x2x2 built by a very clever Australian, Ian Drysdale, who is also responsible for the Drysdale V-8 bike based on two FZR400 top ends. It was built over 20 years ago before the Ohlins or the Christini. It uses 2 wheel steering and similar hydraulic drive to the Ohlins bike.



Read more here:

http://home.mira.net/~iwd/2x2x2/index.html

Here is another 2WD based on a CR500 built by a friend of Ian's.

Wow!...mechanical vs. hydraulic...didn't realize that. I remember watching those Dakar wrapups each night and keeping track of how that 450 Yamaha was doing. Quite impressive for a 450 vs. 690's, and I think they got 1st in the 450 class and 7th overall. I kinda like the mechanical aspect vs. the hydraulic...and not saying that from a luddite perspective.

I would LOVE to try one of these.

And a tip for the wise: most threads are better read with IheartmyNX on your ignore list.

......

I also didn't realize they claim a street legal version on the 450 model. Dadgumit!...this is all I need...some other reason to consider this bike.

OK...watched several videos for this system now. Most of them appear to made-for-commercial kind of deals, but that 2007 enduro competition one really gave a better perspective IMO. The segment in that video that showed the rider in that horribly rocky streambed told me a lot. As a younger guy, I raced enduros for decades on all kinds of bikes. I get riding in that terrain in that streambed, and I could really tell how that front wheel pulling was changing the game for that guy. The nature of that spot totally removed a good bit of that advantage that you can often get by pulling the front end up a bit and letting it skip over the oncoming rocks on your regular single drive bike. That streambed had too much oddly spaced rock to do that without some extreme consequences if everything doesn't go perfectly. The Christini rider was maintaining a good pace, because you could tell the front wheel was not stacking and stalling into the upcoming rock faces. There wasn't anything fake or staged about that sequence...and I'm not saying the other vids were staged, but you always have that suspicion in the back of your mind.

I think I see one problem with this bike. When riding in a rocky situation like that vid, you better watch your foot placement when dabbing. When you're used to slogging more through something like that when you have to dab, you might not be ready for the rolling speed that's occurring with this front wheel drive, if you get what I'm saying. Since I don't have to race in mud anymore, I wouldn't be that impressed with how good this bike does in nasty conditions. I'd rather not ride in those conditions anymore unless I'm just caught out in a downpour. However, I see that this setup seems to do extremely well in rocky terrain or any place where loose traction becomes an issue. I know the Christini name has been around for awhile, but after researching some reviews and vids, I didn't realize how long. And I didn't read much about reliability issues and such. Judging by the amount of time this system has been around, this Christini guy must be serious about promoting it.

Man, I could see me liking something like that street legal model for my trips and riding style. I wish I knew more about that engine and suspension. I'll bet the frame is solid, but I'm not that familiar with that fork and the rear shock type was not listed in what I saw.

I wonder what the maintenance schedule is like? I s the motor for the DS a tuned more for longevity?


If it is, that would put it at the top of my list of new DS bikes, a real bargain when compared with the kit prices...

Yes, the motor is tuned for reliability. It is a copy of the CRF450X, but with slightly lower compression ratio (11:1) and a small CV type street carburetor, which is required for the 50 state certification. Both 450s, DS and dirt only, use the same motor. I am in the process of installing a CRF 40mm FCR carb and CRF450X slip on to gain some power. I also am sure that a CRF450R cam will fit, but I need to verify which version is needed. The nice thing about the bike is that virtually all Honda parts fit.

As far as maintennce on the front drive, it is not bad. The bike comes with a needle tip grease gun and tube of grease to use on the telescoping front drive shafts. This is the only thing required at short intervals and only takes seconds to perform. The manual on the front drive system is quite impressive, the one on the rest of the bike, not so much, but again, it is basically a CRF450X and you can down load a manual for that.

On the Honda compatibility, how did that happen? Did Christini make some kind of deal with Honda? I'm only asking because Honda is usually very protective about their technology. I'd guess the CRF450 stuff is still patent protected to some degree, but honestly I have no idea how this stuff works.

On the CV carb, frankly for using it as a more serious DS bike, I'd rather keep the CV carb. They are easier to live with in places like Colorado, and they get excellent mileage as a rule. I currently have one on my KLX250S with a 300 cylinder on it, and it's a stupid simple carb. Nothing wrong with wanting more carb and a little better response, but I'd think the 450 would be more than sufficient power for my taste.

I thought it was loosly explaned on the first few pages (I haven't looked though, maybe I should before opening my mouth...), but the base bike used is of Chinese origen (sold as an "Odes" here in Aus.

That bike was basicly an older CRF, (I think they had the old tooling for the parts, but I could be very wrong there), and from what I have heard, copyright doesnt really exist in China.

All this is just of the top of my head so if someone comes in and refutes it, they are probably right.

Edit, I just looked, and it must have been a different thread I was thinking of...

It was THIS thread...

Yes, it is based on this bike, the Asiawing LX450X, which is basically a CRF450X. They have some agreement with Honda, probably because they build other small bikes for them and Honda is coming out which a new CRF.

I was told that the manual could be found online but have failed to find it. Anybody have a link for it? basic christini operation maintenance etc