BergDonk's XT1200Z

Looking forward to the report..So he didn't have a Hyerpro lying around eh?...

By the way I found something on Franks Website..

He still plays with it for off road though, including road racing

He was also wary of what I did to my DR, but we learn together

Nevertheless, for all the successful height changes done, there are many, many more that don't work, up, and down and Frank has seen many of them, hnece his advice. Play with ride heights, but.....

Time for a brief update, although not much to report as I've been otherwise engaged.

Shock

Above I mentioned that I've swapped springs, but not for what rates. Up back we understand the stock spring to be 12.5 kg/mm. Ohlins supply a slightly stiffer one at 13.0 kg/mm with the shock, but after some discussion we decided to try an Eibach 0800.225.0850 which is a bit shorter than the stock and Ohlins spring, but supposedly doesn't coil bind and is 850 lbs/in which equates to <> 15.2 kg/mm

The witness marks on the stock shock show that I've been routinely bottoming the stock shock solo without luggage, so something more is needed for me solo, let alone with SWMBO and luggage aboard. I'm <> 115 kgs.






You can see the marks on the bump rubber from the shock end cap in the pic.

The Ohlins up back feels really good, with that 'Ohlins' feel of plushness and control, and so far, no fade, with negligible bottoming, so the spring seems about right.

But....

I asked about rear rises and any vibes on the big thread here on ADV and over on http://www.yamahasupertenere.com I have had no repsonse or comment at all, so I guess no one else on the forums who has lifted the rear an inch or so has noticed anything.

I removed the Ohlins and put the stocker back and confirmed that with the preload settings, the lift up back is 22 mm which one theory suggests shouldn't make any difference as the effect on driveshaft angle isn't much, and with the normal operating range anyway for say a lighter rider with the stock shock wound right up. I still reckon there is a slight increase in vibes with the Ohlins, but I'll experiment some more. I'm happy with the slight increase in steering sensitivity with the extra height, and I do like that the extra height is also extra travel too.

I'll swap them around a couple of times again and decide whether to get Frank to shorten the shock or not.


Forks

For me, the stock forks spike about 1/2 travel and it felt like it was hydraulic, but could be too stiff springs, or both.

The stock springs are dual rates, note that they are not progressives, and I understand them to be about 0.85/1.15 kgs/mm






Here is a pic of a stock spring next to a Sonic 0.95 for reference. It appears that the static sag will use most/all the soft part of the stock springs, there is maybe 30 mm of travel before the soft bit coil binds, so the stiffer part of the spring is in use most of the time.

Nick at Stoltec recommended 0.90 or more likely 0.95 kg/mm for me, which is quite a bit stiffer than Frank was thinking, but still softer than stock. Frank did some investigations and thought that something like 0.70-0.75 kg/mm would be good to try. The softest Nick can supply is, I think, 0.80. After some deliberation and discussion with Frank, I got 2 sets from Nick as mentioned above, 0.85 and 0.95 so I could use one of each for 0.90 and have some options to try.

As mentioned above, Frank changed the shimstack in the compression stack to one that will respond faster, ie less high speed compression, and opened up the bleeds for more flow so hydraulicing should not now be an issue. We also fitted the 0.85 springs to start with.





They now work much better than stock, more compliant, and more control, but they still need some more work. I still have about 30 mm travel unused, and it goes harsh at the end of the travel I'm using, so maybe Frank's right about the spring rate, and others are wrong? He's usually right in my experience.

I'll do some more testing, and play with the springs I have some more before deciding what's next.


In the meantime, I'm about to depart on a 3 week <>7,000 km trip on the DR650 tomorrow, so nothing more for a while longer.

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Odd, even at about 110 kg geared up, plus luggage, I never bottomed mine out. Was your preload cranked up to max?

Thanks for that BergDonk.

Looking forward to the rest of the Suspension Adventure.

I think the space between the road and the bike was cranked up to the max at some point.

Have you had a good look at the bump rubber? You may not feel it, but if the physical evidence is there.... Too much of this can hammer the end cap into the shock body, belling it out and ultimately destroying it.

I found for me solo, about 1/2 preload was about the max that still gave some compliance, but not what I wanted, and still bottomed. Full preload solo and it kicks around. I'm not motocrossing it, but am trying to test it out and get it right I've been spoilt with good suspension, and my Tenere needs to have good suspension as a result. Stock is OK, but

Stiffer springs not only give better bottoming resistance, but with less preload for the same static sag, a more compliant ride, if the spring is too soft initially. I'll try and explain this better later if anyone is interested.

Will have a look in the AM. The suspension still feels pretty good to me cranked to the max, and I've had Ohlins on a number of bikes. Maybe I'm too dumb to tell the difference....

so Bergdonk, did your ABS off switch affect the TCS? If not, have you considered this mod? It is something I am currently researching to do.

I often take off and forget to switch the TCS off or at least onto the TCS 2 position.. because I live on a dirt road, the TCS 1 (default postion) is shocking on the dirt with my heavy right hand


Joe

Good question, and I'm not sure of the answer. I'll have to experiment. I agree that TCS 1 is a PITA off a sealed surface. So far I've just confirmed that it switches the ABS off, and have then checked that it all comes back up. Like others have observed, for normal riding, the ABS works OK, but I'd still prefer that the brakes were normal and unlinked. I'm struggling to try and use the rear brake first after 40 years of learning to, and doing it properly with front first.

You can of course turn the TCS off by holding the button in for a few seconds, but you have to do it each time, and I think that's what you said anyway. I have about a 50% chance of remembering to switch it to TCS 2 ATM. I am finding that TCS 2 on gravel suits my riding style. I'm not normally one to hang it out as I prefer to go forwards rather that sideways.

Any evidence of bottoming then?

Well I had a fabulous time, covering just over 9,000 kms. Some RR is here FYI:
http://www.offroadexplorer.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3155

After being home for a few days and another ride on the DR last week, its now time to get back to sorting the S10 and spending some quality time with it.

Over the weekend I had a good play with the suspension. I was particularly keen to determine if the vibes I'd felt with the raised rear end was real or a function of circumstance, ie slabbing at higher speed etc, or imagination.

After swapping out the shock in and out and playing with preload, and SWMBO up back, I'm happy now that there are no perceptable vibes resulting from the 22 mm lift that I get with the Ohlins in its current configuration

The way its now setup, its just like I had the Ohlins in my GTR. With min preload on the hydraulic adjuster, its firm comfy and controlled solo, and with full preload, - 2 click comp and + 2 clicks reb its just as good with SWMBO up back. We did about 120 kms yesterday pm and did our first fire trail, albeit a nice easy one, 2 up, so getting there.

Right now I'm very happy with the shock, and as noted above, the forks are good, but I know they can be better. Definitely better than stock as is, but...........

Apart from the forks, I have some tool tubes to fit, I have to get back and finish the wiring, the switches are all here, make a new GPS mount, and I got an Altrider rack last week too. Its fitted up, but I plan to modify it a bit for more storage space, so watch this space

I should also add that the TCS 1 is much better on dirt with the Ohlins than the stocker as the shock keeps the tyre on the ground over corrugations etc much better, so less slip and no TCS correction needed.

I believe that. But TC1 is still no fun on dirt. Makes no sense, if you ask me. :) (which you didn't)

OK, TCS 1 is no good on the loose stuff, but on harderpack, but not sealed surfaces, it is more usable with the Ohlins because the tyre stays in contact with the surface better, so less spin to control. Think corrugations, aka washboard, etc.

BUT, TCS 2 is still preferred, or off all together and back to traditional TC via the right wrist.

Does this make more sense now?

And snake, you never did get back to me with your fork spring rate I did end up with the same shock spring as you though, 850 lb.

But I do agree with the new shock you are getting better bite from the rear. I remember that was the first remark I posted after getting the new shock mounted.
I take the same dirt road every day for the 2 years I've had this bike. So the familiarity was precise. Same throttle, same rear tire, better acceleration from more bite. Love it!

Oh, and I didn't get back because I don't recall. Don't wanna give bad info. I'll dig it up somewhere and report. :)

Berg,

I'm really surprised that you aren't using more front fork travel.

I am almost exactly your same weight and run .95s in the forks with Stoltec's valving.

I am able to bottom my forks when riding off road. I can easily get my fork travel indicator to about where yours is from just braking on the street.

I'm actually considering adjusting my oil level to resist the bottoming a bit more. In fact, what oil height did Frank use when reassembling your forks?

ac

We set the fork oil at 150 mm. This was to give some scope to easily add some. Should be able to go to 120 mm with no issue.

This was without reference to the manual, which I've just checked, and 150 mm is the spec. Maybe I'll suck a bit out for more testing?

On my testing last weekend, I did some small jumps, solo, and aimed for some rocks and chuck holes under brakes etc to see if I could get any more travel. Not yet. It does feel a bit like its hydraulicing, so less oil might be a good first step in the process.

Bergdonk,

My front springs are 90's
And although we have identical rear setups, that doesn't mean we should have identical fronts.
But it is a reference point.
AC just stated he has more spring than I on the front. (Not sure what he has on his rear Penske)

My forks have a lot more range of preload adjustment than the oem forks did. I get proper (~57mm) sag at about 8 turns in of 21 turns available.
On oem forks you might need a bit stiffer. I don't know.

Thanks snake. Its all good info, and helps me with my r&d, and perhaps cost control

Its interesting, and where Frank was coming from with his thinking that lighter springs are needed, in that bikes with similar weight and much less travel still use <> 1 kg springs.

As an indicative rule of thumb, double the travel and halve the spring rate for the same net result re sags and load carrying ability.

I hope to do some more testing etc soon, so stay tuned

I previously fitted a SW Motech bracket here:
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21806122&postcount=38

As a temporary measure, I fitted my Montana's Rugged Mount to it with the universal SWM adjustable bracket. It worked, but was a bit untidy, and because it cantilevered out a fair bit, wobbled around more than I'd prefer.






I got a block of black Delrin and measured and cut a wedge bit off the end. Its in the pic above, below the SWM bit it replaces.





Roughed into place and its much smaller than the SWM, and lighter, and positions the GPS better, lower and at a better angle to reduce reflections.





Polished up and all in place. I also fitted a waterproof switch below the power outlet that I'll use to power the GPS, direct from the battery with an inline fuse. I prefer it this way, then it doesn't get upset when the ignition is off when refuelling etc.

I also have the switch for the driving lights, so will try and finish the wiring tomorrow.

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