Countersteering confusion : (

Yeah the language was not very helpful. I remember now that just when my wife asked about countersteering a mc magazine I subscribed to mentioned countersteering with a more erudite description.

Turn a bike left you press down on the left bar and the bike will go left. I was told that at my advanced riding training. Even tho I corner with out thinking about it.

I'm a noob but here's what worked for me.

Find a nice safe corner somewhere (no traffic, no gravel, not a decreasing raduis, no dips or humps, or access from side roads with good line of sight around the whole turn, turn should be not too sharp and long enough so you can play with the lean of the bike = a tight sweeper

Our practice turn goes to the left

Get up to speed on straight approching practice turn

1. Brake to proper speed - for you

2 Look through the turn as far as you can see -Hint ( if as far as you can see is getting farther away the road is getting straighter - if it gets closer you just entered a decreasing raduis turn :eek1)

Counter steer - push forward on the left handle bar grip- feel bike lean over

Roll on the throttle.

Exit turn - stop pusing on left bar -roll off throttle depending on speed - stand bike up right

Go around your loop and do it again

This time - note is your elbow bent or straight when you push on the left grip -- a straight arm makes it harder to control how hard you are pushing - bend your elbow this time.

Go around your loop and do it again

This time with bent elbow pushing on left grip - push down/back on the left foot peg -- feel how you can now press less on the left grip -push down then let off then push again - it a subtle adjustment - learn to do it every time and you can delicately adjust your lean with the pegs

Go around your loop and do it again

This time with bent elbow pushing on left grip -foot pushing down/back on left peg - push in on the tank with your right knee/leg --let off then push in again -it has more effect than pushing on the pegs but it's still subtle.

Go around your loop and do it again

This time scoot up on the seat with your chest closer to the tank and head over the bars prior to braking for the turn

With bent elbow pushing on left grip -foot pushing down/back on left peg - pushing in on the tank with your right knee/leg - and scooted up on the seat with chest on tank feel the bike lean and turn -

It will turn really easily - so be careful - forward weight shift makes more difference than pegs or pushing with your knees but all three won't get you around the turn without pushing on the grips

Go around your loop and do it again

Can you adjust your lean in the turn if needed - can you not brake and take the turn - can you roll on more throttle -

Now turn around and do your loop the other way and practice to the right.

Go home -park the bike - drink some beer with your friends -

Next day - go to the same place -- Do all Four - Push forward on Grips- push in with knees and down on pegs - lean forward----but smoooooothly - smooth and steady sails the ship

Are you braking too hard for the turn causing the front suspension to bob as you enter the turn - are you changing gears mid-corner - are you having to adjust your line in the turn every time - how about your roll on the throttle is it smooth, in the right gear ?

This is just my experience on my V-strom which is kinda a tall - top heavy bike.

I'm no racer but using my whole body to ride the bike works better for me.

Didn't we all go through this as kids on bicycles?

If you didn't you certainly shouldn't be on one with a motor.

Strange that this thread got bumped today.

I had the day off and was exploring roads. One road, in particular, was a very long, well paved and empty two-lane (it led back to a really nice airport). On my way out I found myself just looking around at the end of a long straight where I had sped the DR650 up to about 90 MPH. The corner came up upon me faster than expected (admitting that I wasn't really paying attention - too much scenery on an empty road to look at), and instead of subtly and unnoticeable-y, I felt my left arm push very quickly, forcefully, and very measured (to sway the handlebar a specific amount) to make the right turn I really wasn't ready for.

Counter-steering becomes that ingrained, and it's awesome!

Rode all day before that incident and never once though about counter-steering until I needed it in spades, lol.

I did and you did but since I have been in the motorcycle industry I have met many who never learned to ride bicycles as kids. I am not going to turn them away from the joy of riding as adults. I point them to where to get good instruction and then supliment what they learned there by going riding with them.

Some of them have turned out to be very proficient riders... Others just treat it as a hobby. Whatever floats their boat.

Yes but as kids you just rode the push bikes and did not know the ins and outs on of countersteering.

Pushed left to go right???

Over the years I've had several people in my MSF class who had never ridden a bicycle. I don't think one of them has ever passed. Imo it's a bridge too far.

Yes. But, as kids, there was no instruction. We learned as a pure trial and error/stimulus response activity. Cognition of what we were trying to learn often got in the way of actually learning how to do it. Thus, some kids seemed to "get it" right away. And other kids struggled for some period of time. In the comic strip Calvin and Hobbs, Calvin struggles with learning to ride a bicycle while his Dad who does ride often is of no real help. Ask any kid who rides how he/she does that and teach it to a kid who does not ride for an example of frustration.

Some years ago, a guy was selling a vhs tape of how to teach a kid to ride a bicycle in about 20-40 minutes. I haven't seen it. but am led to believe that it works pretty well.

A cupple years prior to that "Bicycle" magazine ran a blurb on how tough it was to teach a highly motivated and well intentioned adult to ride a bicycle. The guy eventually learned. At the time it amazed me that that such 'experts' would not know how to do that?

My grandkids cannot ride a bicycle and seem to have no interest, wtf?

tbc

Whoops. Right arm pushed. LOL

Teaching my kids how to ride.

Nice one. Boon Boon. That exemplifies the current thinking on how to get the job done. I took the pedals off the crank for my grandkids to use as a hobby horse learning steering and balance. Their interest was less than stellar.

But, the bicycle riders still do not have the cognition to understand what they are doing. And that lack of knowledge prevents them from teaching the technique. Another poster noted that none of the non-bicycle riding students in the MSF class passed and that the skill was too hard to teach there. I concur as none such students in my MSF class learned to ride either. But, I didn't know then what I know now about teaching how to ride a bicycle. The bicycle is the cheap and less dangerous way of learning the skill which then can be transfered to motorcycles.

I know some pretty accomplished motorcycle road racers who do not understand how a bike steers nor how they do it for themselves. Their talent for riding is not diminished for that lack. But their ability to instruct is hampered.

There is an app for that.

I miss the good old days.

I just wanted to say thanks for the discussion here. I've been riding for a couple of years and am familiar with the "push right, go right" mantra. I believe most riding schools in the UK teach that right off the bat, presumably that's mentioned during MSF over the states too.

What I picked up from this thread was the hint about pulling gently with the outside arm during turns. Perhaps I was subconsciously stiffening that arm before but I found that making that change had a big impact on my cornering skills - I can now routinely take corners 10mph faster than I was doing before.

I also believe that part of the improvement that riders see when trying out new techniques comes from raw belief - the feeling of "Well, that guy says this technique works so it'll improve my cornering too!" That positive thought helps them trust the bike a little more and lean in just that little bit further, corner a little bit tighter and, as if by magic, the whole experience really *is* better!

I actually am more of a puller, than a pusher when riding, don't know why, just how I always did it.

I read in total control to turn with the inside arm. I tried it and found I twist both arms pulling and pushing depending on the situation using my shoulders.