Yamaha WR250R Mega Thread

I don't think it is improved either. My guess is that Yam is just rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Fair to point out that other mfgs. are having problems as well. Mark Sampson [big dog] is on his third pump, they seem to go ~17k for him.

I have a 2008, and replaced the pump with a new one in 2009, sold the take-out to "Skierd" , I think he has run it 30k miles or something without trouble. My replacement pump fell off it's perch in some nasty switchbacks out in the woods, but has been symptom free since [???] it's not just a 2008 problem, and replacment is not a garantee of no more problems.

More 2008 bikes sold =more issues with 2008 pumps. Kinda makes sense? Rydnseek & I both have 08's. I think he is over 15,000 & I am over 10,000 with no issues. Very random & no real common reason on the failures? Hot here in AZ. I have the Safari tank on mine since I bought it used with about 800 miles & Rydnseek has the big IMS. I am doing a 4 day solo trip, Prescott to Laughlin, Laughlin to Barstow on the Mojave Trail & back in two weeks on the WR. Would be a real bummer if it craps out on the ride but life goes on. If I don't post for a while I am in the desert with a non working fuel pump:eek1:eek1

Spare pump...

I was hoping for the added convenience of making the tank swap fast. I like to hit the local motard track occasionally and the thought of low siding on my expensive IMS 4.7 is concerning me a bit.

Small world...

Oh yes, it was certainly an epic journey for us. That was one awesome week of riding I won't soon forget.


As it turned out, nearly 2 months later, district attorney dropped the charge against our riding buddy, so he's no longer considered a fugitive in the State of Colorado, and he'll be able to go back when we do it all over again in a year or two.

Snow already? Holy shite !!! We haven't even got snow in Canada yet (well, not in the southern parts, at least).

My Safari tank makes a darn good radiator guard, proven many times. Part of the cost justification for the big tank was radiator protection. The stock, plastic "guard" seems to be working and allows good airflow. I cut a couple of holes on the back of the fan shroud, maybe that aids flow. Some people say they feel extra heat with that mod. I wear riding pants so not a problem. If I was riding behind other bikes and getting roosted a lot, maybe I would need more substantial protection, but I don't ride like that.

I have looked but cannot find any info as to whether bikes which see pump failures are mainly

a) modified with exhaust FMF, airbox etc. and so running a great deal more fuel

b) run the tank dry often, or at least low

c) ridden mostly very hard and/or heavily loaded

d) all of the above.

Reason I am asking is I was wondering if a bike had no major engine mods, rider wasn't really beating the bike up much, never runs the tank dry, would they have zero chance of failure or 1/2 or what? It may be that the pump capacity is very near its limit on a WOT stock engine, and when pushed via mods or excess heat or thrashing whatever, it pukes. Not making excuses it just seems no one has come up with the failure modes and probable causes from my reading up on it. Has not happened to my 08 bike yet but I am pretty easy on it, have other bikes for beating up.

I've had the fuel pump on my '08 over heat a couple of times. Both times were when I let the fuel level get low w/light on while riding slowly in the woods. I just waited a while for it to cool down and it started working again. I just try not to let the fuel level get too low now.

The only one of those factors that would effect the pump itself is (b). Modifications and riding style make no difference, the pump is either on or off, not variable. Hot climates (or running hot) could be a factor as well.

This is quite common with FI dirt bikes though. A small amount of fuel (which acts as fuel pump coolant), mixed with lots of heat (stuck/slow riding), is going to be bad on a fuel pump, period. Regardless of bike/brand etc.

I'm one of the other dudes riding with thump.

You guys looked like you were having some fun. The stage coach stop was a really cool place.

I remember one of you guys running some version of a trials tire....

Well now I have to read this trip report!

Heat seems to be the most common denominator. While ambient heat could factor in, the engine is a lot hotter than the air and the fuel tank is right on top of that heat source. I think the small, stock, steel fuel tanks exacerbate the problem, especially with low fuel levels. When I removed the stock tank to replace it with the Safari, I noticed all the insulation on the stock tank and thought that was a good idea. So I insulated my Safari tank.

The advantage for fuel pump life with the Safari (and presumably with the large IMS too) isn't so much the extra capacity, because most of the additional fuel is carried below the pump, but the the secondary pump that lifts the fuel from the tank wings. The secondary pump is always spraying fuel onto the fuel pump (to fill its little draw reservoir). I think this helps to cool the pump. That and I generally keep the tank more than half full...at least the first half of the ride.

My '08 bike is on the original pump with over 11,000 miles, half of which are off-pavement. I have a brand new fuel pump sitting on the shelf because my bike is in the cursed zone, but I'm not going to pre-emptively replace it. I'll wait till I get stranded in the boonies just to be sure.

Check out High Five's site, and posts on ADV. Should be some info for you.

http://www.wrrdualsport.com/

CheapCycleParts.com $238 and $9.99 shipping, also had other parts with the order.

Thanks for your reply. Yes it is either on or off but it cycles to maintain pressure faster or slower depending on engine load. What I was getting at is any electric pump has a max flow rate, and at that point the electric motor inside it is cycling at its design limit to maintain fuel system pressure. This generates a certain amount of excess heat. Part of the design of an in-tank pump is that heat is dissipated by the fuel in which it is immersed.

Performance mods + hard riding + heavily loaded will cause higher demands for peak flow rate out of the pump. Low fuel levels + high engine & ambient temps & low speeds also increase heat effects as the fuel cannot dissipate the heat from the pump as well.

I was just guessing that many folks ride the shit out of these bikes loaded & modded (which is a good thing believe me) but maybe the fuel pump is too often at or beyond its design limits in a situation with a low fuel ( so poor heat sink) and so it fails. It would be nice to have a higher capacity aftermarket pump available or at least understand what factors are causing this so as to minimize the likelihood of occurrence. Then again I would expect Athena big bore folks to have the most failures if this is a correct thesis.

I am purposely not modding the engine til I understand this better, much of my riding is way the hell off and gone solo in the mountains and I really don't want to have to deal with a fuel pump going out @ 12k ft 30 miles from anywhere. High elevation makes heat problems worse as the ambient air pressure is lower, so its ability to absorb radiated heat is less.

Anyway so far the take away message seems to be, do not run out of fuel or get too low, esp while riding hard & slow, and if you do maybe ride more conservatively to minimize heat build up.

Rode the Meteor ride this past Saturday and crashed big time, this swift moving pine darted out just as My front tire washed out in deep sugar sand. My bike gave the tree a kiss followed by a hug with me in between. This sweet embrace took the breath out of me and offered some small mystifying stars to gaze upon. While several riders behind are pulling the love birds apart to avoid rubbernecking, I regain composure and decency only to find my Alpinestar suit saved my right forearm from becoming two and the WR unscathed. We left the love starved Pine tree alone and broken bark ed.

Points I like to make:

1) The WR is built like a tank. (weighs like one too)

2) Alpinestar suit really works.

3) Radiator guard works for sure.

Protection gear for bike and rider is paramount for a great day in the woods.

Hey NeilW,

I am thinking that the Mod is feeling the extra heat because it is in fact damaging the efficiency of the fan to pull air away from the rear of the radiator. The purpose of the shroud is to direct the air& heat coming thru the radiator to the fan for removal effectively. If you put holes in the shroud it no longer is working as designed. To move more heat away from the engine you make the radiator larger, the fan larger or the same fan faster, or some combination of those three.:huh
Just imho.

Seems like a likely theory. I try to never let my tank get too empty for that reason, to keep the pump immersed.

I have read this entire thread, and my impression is that fuel pump failures generally aren't catastrophic, but rather, intermittent, and parking the bike for 20 minutes usually results in it starting and running fine (until the next occurrence). So I wouldn't hesitate to go out there on the WRR, and would replace it first sign of impending failure.

Yep I read the whole thing too. I guess one thing would be if it does go out and you are low on fuel, see if you can't get a little more fuel in there from a buddy or aux source, whatever, for cooling, then let it sit for 20 minutes and go. Some people seem to not have the pump completely fail after a few of these episodes so I wonder if you could get away with it w/o buying a new pump if it happened once or twice.

In my case i got a 3.1 gal IMS tank and never let it get much lower than reserve light coming on. That seems to be with 3/4 gallon left or so.

" Yes it is either on or off but it cycles to maintain pressure faster or slower depending on engine load. What I was getting at is any electric pump has a max flow rate, and at that point the electric motor inside it is cycling at its design limit to maintain fuel system pressure."

My understanding was that the pumps ran constantly and either delivered fuel to the injector or bled it off through a fixed- pressure relief valve. There is a single "cycle" when the key is turn on, but I thought the pump ran 100% when underway. Is that not the case?

You may be right it would not be the first time I did not understand something.

edit:

"On most older vehicles, the fuel pump runs at a constant speed. But on many newer applications, the pump speed is varied by the PCM to more closely match the engine's fuel requirements."

http://www.aa1car.com/library/fuel_pump.htm

But even is the WR is variable rate I think you are right in general that the main cause is running the tank low under hot ambient conditions.