Avon Storm Ultra II Delamination Crash

avon needs to pay you A LOT of $$$ for what you went through.

i don't know much about avon but i have always thought of them as second-rate...like shinko.

abe

Tire is correct size, speed, and weight rating.

Tire was mounted with the correct rotation.

Tire had less than 2000 miles on it.

Tire was on bike 11 days.

It was mounted at Daytona Beach Cycle Gear and balanced out beautifully.

Currently, I have not contacted Avon directly but will. I will also be filing a formal report with the NHTSA. My insurance agency has not finished figuring out what they are doing but, so far, do not seem interested in the tire failure angle. Depending on what they decide, the pay-out, the salvage, and how long I'm willing to be bike-less will determine if I decide to have the tire investigated myself. I did find a company that investigates tire failure and, based on photos, they were shocked to see this on a motorcycle tire and felt that it is highly likely a defect. However, to get it investigated would cost about $2K out of my pocket and I'd have to buy back the bike as salvage, then move it from Roswell to Phoenix for the investigation. So......as you can see, there's a lot to consider.

Mostly, I wanted folks to be aware there's potentially an issue and to check your tires very carefully.

Someone forwarded me this link to the Blackbird (CBRXX) forum where someone had a bad Storm.....
http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=68174

What's the date of manufacture on the tire?

People are saying you are a good rider. Does it make you feel strange that people are saying that yet you crashed? You made the right choice to stick with the bike and do what you could to control it. You sound like a good rider to me.

I had an "accident" on my BMW R1100s where the rear wheel came off (wheel bolts crossthreaded) and lodged under the bike. I rode it to the shoulder, full rear skid and did not go down, fortunately, I was in a 35mph zone and stayed upright. Eye witness and general great guy who gave me a ride to my truck said I must be some great rider to have ridden it out. I said "what else was I going to do? I had no choice really, but thanks. It was crazy." It did make me feel strange. I lost control of my bike and had it not been for the shoulder, I would have been screwed, yet I was getting praise for my skillz. I found it strange and wondered if you did too? I also wonder, did you have any other options or was it just reflex and kind of a general feeling of "I can make it to the median."?

Thanks for posting. That absolutely looks like a delaminated tire to me, after seeing a few old car tires do that.

Wow. that the type tire delamination I ve seen from semi trailer tires but never one a bike. Glad you made it out alive. There no way that is anything but a defective tire.

Amazing that you got through a major delamination like that with so little damage ! I agree with the others here that you are a very lucky guy & a talented rider ravenranger.

I've just put a new set of storm ultra2's on my CB1300F, I too have felt they are not quite as good as what I had on before (conti road attack rear & michelin pr2 front). The feeling is somewhat vague in the dry & uninspiring to say the least in wet conditions. I had thought it was just me & am letting the tires wear in before I make a definate conclusion. My ultra 2's have around 1,000k on them @ the moment. Thank you for this thread, I'll be keeping a very close watch on these tires from now on.:eek1

My first question is how much stuff did you have in the saddlebags and the tail trunk?

Second, on the Avon web page, they do not have any "tyres" suggested for the ST1300.

The Storm 2 Ultra has a load rating of 72 - that is 783 pounds.

The ST1300 itself weights about 650 pounds on its own, it would not be hard to exceed the weight limit with a rider, passenger and gear. Sure, you're running on both front and rear tires, but I can see the weight being biased towards the rear, especially is a passenger is ever on board and those saddlebags/tailtrunk being packed.

There is a reason Avon does not suggest this tire on the ST1300, and I see no reason for any lawsuits against them, if anything, look yourself in the mirror and slap yourself silly for not doing more research.

Shit happens, it just does - and if you are running a tire that is not recommended by the manufacturer for your bike and you have a failure, well, chalk it up to experience.

As for the "tyre" pressure, you would of needed to be running it at the maximum rated pressure, as that is where the maximum weight capacity it generally at - any lower, you're doomed for a failure on a bike as massive as the ST1300.

Also, if is was hot outside, that adds to the problems, especially with a tyre not designed for the bike.

And if you picked up a nail or anything else that may of deflated the tire, or caused a loss of pressure, that too may cause the failure - it appears there may be a blow out point in the tire, maybe you did hit a nail or something, who knows, lots of possibilities.



I've seen too many cheapskate GoldWing owners run into a very similar problem. And I'm not saying you are/were a cheapskate, just possibly mis-guided.

I'm glad you were not seriously hurt.

Lesson learned, I hope.

Oh, Avon makes pretty decent tires - they are a step above the Shinko or Maxxis (Cheng Shin) brands IMO, maybe two or three or four step!




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Sounds like you did an amazing job of riding it out. Is it just me, or does it look like the tire rotation arrow is pointing in the wrong direction on that close up of the rear wheel? Maybe I'm seeing something else.

That's a rough day to be sure! Very glad you aren't hurt and sorry to see your fine machine damages.

I wouldn't write avon off altogether. I've put over 60k on storms and their predecessors (haven't had ultra IIs yet though) and have yet to find another tire that works as well for me (tried metzlers, dunlops, bridgestones and pilot roads and pilot road IIs - didn't really like any of them). I get great mileage, grip and handling traits with them. I also found that my avons consistently required much less balance weight than the others, suggesting to me that maybe they are a bit more careful in the mfg process.

I've no idea why your tire came apart, it certainly shouldn't do that. Maybe avon made a bad batch of tires, if so, they need to recall them pronto.

For what its worth, I haven't tried them on a bike anywhere near as heavy as yours (my stuff is all well under 500lbs wet/loaded and I'm ~160lbs). Still, a tire shouldn't fly apart, even if a bit overloaded or under inflated. Only causes I can think of other than a tire defect would be if some part on your bike rubs/hits the tire at times or if there was some object in the road that tore it up. Neither seems super likely, but since you went through 3 in a row I might wonder a bit about something specific to your situation. Maybe really wacky installation procedure or something. Even if they are making some defective tires, chances that you'd get 3 of them in a row is pretty darn slim. If something near even a third of all produced were bad, there'd be tens of thousands of crashes by now and a major recall and law suit I'm sure. If say 10% of the tires are bad, which I still think is way more than is likely, chances of getting three in a row would be (1/10)^3 = 1/1,000.

What h9r says is interesting, but...Michelin recommends their Pilot Road 2 for the ST1300 which also has a 72 load rating. Hmmm....

How about calling Cooper (owner of Avon) and asking to speak with a motorcycle tire engineer. Don't mention the tire failure and the crash. Ask about the tire you used on the ST1300, and see what he says. Try to find out why Avon does not list a tire for your bike. If you get any information, please let us all know.

Avon USA....1 800 624 7470
Cooper.....419-423-1321

Avon has been giving different information to different people and it seems dependent on what rep you happen to get as to whether or not they "recommend" the tire. That, in itself is problematic.

Tire was mounted in the correct rotation and that was verified by myself, two folks at Cycle Gear and again by the dealer in Roswell who currently has the bike.

I don't recall the exact date codes but they were this year.

The day was not hot - max temps in the 70's - good thing or I'd not have been wearing my riding pants and would definitely be hamburger.

BTW, the ORIGINAL STORMS were AWESOME tires. The Ultra II's are a completely different animal.

As far as multiple issues goes, it seems a number of folks are coming out of the woodwork with similar "strange" tread cuts that they'd assumed were road hazards even though they hadn't run over anything and could find no road hazard evidence. So far, it seems like the "magic" number on the ones with tread issues is somewhere between 2-3K miles.

My choice to go for the median is directly related to my experience of being involved, a little over a year ago, in the search for the goldwing rider (Donald Masters) who went missing in Montana/Idaho and wasn't found for 20 days. I very much expected to either not survive or be badly, badly injured and wanted my body found sooner rather than later.

You need to speak to a GOOD lawyer today! And BEFORE you accept any sort of settlement with your insurance company. They are not on your side!

Googled tire delamination and found this guy.
http://www.jamsadr.com/professional...=563fc37f-318e-46fa-9ea0-061a1bbf41b8&ajax=no

Wow, thanks - definitely will check this guy out!

No problem, anything for a fellow adv'er. It looks like you have been doing a good job of documenting everything, keep it up. Names, dates, pictures, etc. That stuff can make or break a case. Don't procrastinate. Let me know what you find out when you talk to someone and be careful what youwrite on here pertaining to your case as anything and everything can be used against you.

http://www.trantololaw.com/liability.php
These are the guys I would deal with locally near me. They are awesome for motorcycle cases, they actually ride. You could contact them and see what they recommend or find someone near you.

Let me tell you, You're lucky to be alive...

I had a valve stem fail on my R1200CLC...Instant flat at 80 indicated on the interstate......

A wild ride ending in a lowside off the road and a final high side..

Wife and I had only minor injuries...We were thrown about ten feet in the final high side.. Bike had only just a skid mark on the right side bag and the bottom of the cat...

If they're had been anything to hit.... It would be all over...

This looks like a bad tire failure... The kind lawyers live for...

Motorcycle tires shouldn't do this because when they do, Folks get killed..

I'd definately see what the insurance company is going to do, Then I would at least get the opinion of a good lawyer..

Good Luck

John

That's deep. I'm glad you're ok.

If the "born on" date of the tire is recent, I would seek an attorney. Hope everything turns out well for you. Best of luck.

WOW :eek1 you were very lucky. Glad to see that there was so little damage to you like the rest I think its time to seek Legal advice.