KLR650 Engine Rebuild Photos and Questions!

larryboy · Jan 11, 2013

Beezer said: ↑

there are no rings for the stock Gen I piston (unless you get really lucky)
Click to expand...

Do you mean that they have been superceded by the '08 and up rings that have been blamed for oil use on the newer bikes or that they don't make rings for the 2007 and older bikes?

rectangular said: ↑

Here's the head I'm currently looking at. Price seems reasonable. I asked the seller if it includes the cam caps, and they said it does indeed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14089250877...em=&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Grab it, quick...doesn't get much better than that. Worry about cams later.

brailman133 · Jan 11, 2013

Sub

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rectangular · Jan 11, 2013

kellymac530 said: ↑

Here is a great resource:

http://www.jdjetting.com/xcart/product.php?productid=106&cat=0&page=&featured=Y
Click to expand...

Awesome! Bookmarking.

I had to take last night off from working on the bike. I have had a little bit of a cold. Tomorrow I'm going to work on getting the jug off for inspection. There might be evidence of blow-by, which would be a big clue. I also hope to check the status of the doohickey and the oil screen. Now I just need to load up on vitamins and take it easy so I can get over this cold!

Beezer · Jan 11, 2013

Larryboy... yes.... the Gen I rings are no longer made unless Kawi changed their minds lately. the last Gen I rings I bought was a NOS set about 3 years ago.... they were shelf stock at my local dealer & I got the last ones in AK. in 08 the piston was changed slightly and the rings are different. like I said... ping Eagle Mike, he may have located some old style NOS rings but last I heard he was out.

edit: as for jetting.... be aware that Dynojet, Mikuni, and Kehin jets all have different sizes for any given number.

 [FONT=&quot]Carb Jet Size Cross Reference:Keihin/DynoJet/Mikuni[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] <hr style="color:#DDDDDD" align="center" noshade="" size="1" width="100%"> [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Width------Keihin # -- DynoJets # -- Mikuni #
0.0350---- 92.5--------- 92-----------86.3
0.0360---- 95----------- 94-----------88.1
0.0370---- 97.5--------- 96-----------90.0
0.0380---- 100---------- 98-----------91.9
0.0390---- 102.5------- 100---------- 93.8
0.0400---- 105--------- 102---------- 95.6
0.0410---- 107.5------- 104---------- 97.5
0.0420---- 110--------- 106---------- 99.4
0.0430---- 112.5------- 108--------- 101.3
0.0440---- 115--------- 110--------- 103.1
0.0450---- 117.5------- 112--------- 105.0
0.0460---- 120--------- 114--------- 106.9
0.0470---- 122.5------- 116--------- 108.8
0.0480---- 125--------- 118--------- 110.6
0.0490---- 127.5------- 120--------- 112.5
0.0500---- 130--------- 122--------- 114.4
0.0510---- 132.5------- 124--------- 116.3
0.0520---- 135--------- 126--------- 118.1
0.0530---- 137.5------- 128--------- 120.0
0.0540---- 140--------- 130--------- 121.9
0.0550---- 142.5------- 132--------- 123.8
0.0560---- 145--------- 134--------- 125.6
0.0570---- 147.5------- 136--------- 127.5
0.0580---- 150--------- 138--------- 129.4
0.0590---- 152.5------- 140--------- 131.3
0.0600---- 155--------- 142--------- 133.1
0.0610---- 157.5------- 144--------- 135.0
0.0620---- 160--------- 146--------- 136.9
0.0630---- 162.5------- 148--------- 138.8
0.0640---- 165--------- 150--------- 140.6
0.0650---- 167.5------- 152--------- 142.5
0.0660---- 170--------- 154--------- 144.4
0.0670---- 172.5------- 156--------- 146.3
0.0680---- 175--------- 158--------- 148.1
0.0690---- 177.5------- 160--------- 150.0
0.0700---- 180--------- 162--------- 151.9
0.0710---- 182.5------- 164--------- 153.8
0.0720---- 185--------- 166--------- 155.6
0.0730---- 187.5------- 168--------- 157.5
0.0740---- 190--------- 170--------- 159.4
0.0750---- 192.5------- 172--------- 161.3
0.0760---- 195--------- 174--------- 163.1
0.0770---- 197.5------- 176--------- 165.0
0.0780---- 200--------- 178--------- 166.9
0.0790---- 202.5------- 180--------- 168.8
0.0800---- 205--------- 182--------- 170.6
0.0810---- 207.5------- 184--------- 172.5
0.0820---- 210--------- 186--------- 174.4
0.0830---- 212.5------- 188--------- 176.3
0.0840---- 215--------- 190--------- 178.1
0.0850---- 217.5------- 192--------- 180.0
0.0860---- 220--------- 194--------- 181.9
0.0870---- 222.5------- 196--------- 183.7
0.0880---- 225--------- 198--------- 185.6
0.0890---- 227.5------- 200--------- 187.5 [/FONT]

larryboy · Jan 12, 2013

Beezer said: ↑

Larryboy... yes.... the Gen I rings are no longer made unless Kawi changed their minds lately. the last Gen I rings I bought was a NOS set about 3 years ago.... they were shelf stock at my local dealer & I got the last ones in AK. in 08 the piston was changed slightly and the rings are different. like I said... ping Eagle Mike, he may have located some old style NOS rings but last I heard he was out.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
Click to expand...

I find that hard to believe, but I'm not really in the market for a set of std KLR rings to test out what you're saying. They show as available from where I buy oem parts, std and oversize including the liner and piston.

Beezer · Jan 12, 2013

mebby they actually have some... mebby Kawi started making them again, mebby the parts guys think they are the same (but they aren't). my local dealer thought they were the same with updated material. all I can say is anybody buying rings for a Gen I piston needs to look close at what they buy. ask EM... he'll know the story

because of the land failures whenever I have one off I just go to the 685/688 to be done with it

if you were desperate & can find old style rings in 1st oversize you can trim the ends to meet the ring gap

edit: check post #7 in this thread from 2010...

http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77414&highlight=piston+ring+change

larryboy · Jan 12, 2013

Beezer said: ↑

because of the land failures whenever I have one off I just go to the 685/688 to be done with it
Click to expand...

I fully agree.

I'm actually thinking of another KLR(they don't all blow up at 26,000 miles, right?) and the first order of business is a 685, brand new bike.

rectangular · Jan 13, 2013

Quick question for everyone, do people generally prefer the 685 kit from Eagle Mike or Schnitz Racing? Anyone with first hand experience with either?

larryboy · Jan 13, 2013

rectangular said: ↑

Quick question for everyone, do people generally prefer the 685 kit from Eagle Mike or Schnitz Racing? Anyone with first hand experience with either?
Click to expand...

I bought one of the early 685 kits from Schnitz and Mike is a personal friend of mine...you can't go wrong either way on this one.

rectangular · Jan 13, 2013

larryboy said: ↑

I bought one of the early 685 kits from Schnitz and Mike is a personal friend of mine...you can't go wrong either way on this one.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Sounds like Eagle Mike is a good community supporter. I'm leaning that way right now.

larryboy · Jan 13, 2013

rectangular said: ↑

Awesome! Sounds like Eagle Mike is a good community supporter. I'm leaning that way right now.
Click to expand...

Yup, he showed up at my house for a techday one time...800 miles from his house. :eek1

He's a great guy and knows what he's doing when it comes to all things mechanical.

rectangular · Jan 14, 2013

Just called Eagle Mike. He does in fact have a used head and cams on hand that he's going to machine up. I'll also be ordering up a 688 piston kit from him tomorrow (the 685 kits are out of stock) along with a doohickey replacement kit.

Pretty excited, it's going to be like parts christmas soon!

rectangular · Jan 16, 2013

Parts are all ordered up! Should be on their way in the next couple of days.

It's been a little bit of the waiting game recently. Between waiting for parts to arrive, and waiting for this cold spell to pass. I really wish I had a heated garage...

GAS GUY · Jan 19, 2013

More than likely the bike was simply run low on oil and destroyed the top end.

rectangular · Jan 19, 2013

Finally! Here we are again. I have the majority of parts I need on their way from Eagle Mike. It's time for me to get the bike ready and prepared for the parts before they arrive.

This is the bike as I last left it. The head is off and besides some hypothesizing, there hasn't been a solid answer for the oil starvation that caused the cam journal damage.

Right when I started, I noticed that I forgot to remove my thermostat from the coolant line. Better label and baggy that for safe keeping.

Time for me to get the cylinder jug off. What about this little guy? Yup, I gotta remove it. Carefully.

Here's the ridiculous 1/4" drive extension and 8mm socket that I have been using a ton on this bike. I rarely use any 1/4" drive tools. I'm getting my money's worth now.

I had to be somewhat careful not to drop the bolt down.

After the bolt was off, it was time for me to remove the coolant hose from the cylinder jug.

There's a metal holder for the head's oil line that is connected to the cylinder jug.

The Clymer manual didn't mention removing the starter. It took about five minutes and it gave me a lot more room to work.

Here's the starter ground wire.

Starter is out!

Almost positive wire needs to be disconnected.

I found a nice little nest waiting for me underneath the starter. There was also a bit of oil around the middle oil banjo bolt. Seems like a strange oil setup and route. I'm going to investigate this oil line soon. It could be clogged and that would explain the starvation.

Some nice nest materials in there. Crazy-wide-angle-hands!

Time to remove the acorn nuts holding the cylinder jug on. Here's the rear.

And this front one.

Awesome. The threaded part of bolt is coming out because the acorn nut is seized. The indentation on the block prevented it from being removed all the way. I had to back the bolt and acorn nut out at the same time as I lifted the cylinder jug off.

After some slight encouragement from a rubber mallet, the cylinder jug started coming off.

Here's the seized acorn nut on the threaded stud. I don't think it will be an issue if I reinstall it like this. Just inconvenient. I might soak it in PB Blaster over night.

Lifting the jug off.

Off!

Here's the front.

And the bottom.

The section of the cylinder that is exposed to combustion.

The piston and connecting rod are free at last.

View from the rear.

And from above. A small amount of the crank can be seen.

Precautionary shop towels.

Taking out the wrist pin clips.

Piston is disconnected! It looks in pretty good shape. It really should be for only 12,000 miles on the bike.

Some heat and oil discoloration underneath. Seems pretty usual.

The connecting rod looks in great shape. This is good!

It looks like there might have been some blow-by. Notice the discoloration below the oil scraping ring. This wasn't present on the other side.

With the big bore kit on the way, this might just make a nice paper weight. Perhaps an extravagant and massive drink coaster?

Also, don't forget the dowels in between the bottom end and cylinder jug. I almost did.

Definitely a lot more room in the frame now.

With the top end of the engine off. It's time for me to start checking parts of the engine for clues to the oil starvation. As recommended here, the oil screen is a great place to start. The right side clutch cover needs to come off.

First, the rear brake needs to be moved out of the way.

The oil filter hollow pin on the inside also needs to come out.

I put the cover back on and put the bolts back in finger tight.

I also had to disconnect the clutch cable. With a little wiggling, it was able to pop right off.

I needed to remove the water pump as well.

This photo is so that I remember that the front bolt is longer and not threaded the entire length.

After removal of the water pump housing, the impeller is now visible.

I thought it would come off a little easier, but it seemed like it was slightly bound up. Not the best method for removal, but I had some luck with working a flat-head around it and using leverage to slowly get the impeller off.

After a minute or so, I got it removed.

Impeller drive shaft.

Some sort of spring o-ring combo? Must have been designed in the future or the late 80s

The Clymer manual had a great tip to move the clutch cable lever facing the rear so that it would internally disengage.

Again, the 1/4" drive and 8mm socket combo comes into play.

I started at this bolt and worked my way around clockwise. Slowly loosening each one a small bit each time around.

There were 15 bolts. One of them is not quite like the others. This is the order they came off the bike, starting at the first bolt I pointed out above.

After some persuasion from a rubber mallet, the side cover was ready to come off.

Off!

Looks pretty good.

Time to remove the oil screen OH MY DEAR WHAT THE Whoa I have never seen anything like this before.

Is that gasket material/case sealant? Did this come from an overzealous factory worker? Shady mechanic? I was completely speechless at this point.

Uh

It kind of felt like fake fishing worms.

Here's some closeups. Most of it was soft grey material. It looked like A LOT of overflow from gasket sealant, or the stuff you use to seal two engine case halves. There was also some black somewhat stiff rubber material in there too. I'm not sure where this came from. It's not the same hard plastic as the cam chain guides. Any ideas?!

Scale reference.

The passageway to the oil screen seems clean enough.

Here's everything with the case off.

With the surprise from the oil screen. I wanted to double check the doohickey situation. I didn't have all the tools needed yet, so I knew I was going to hit a roadblock when I needed to remove the stator.

I started with removing the gear shift lever.

Front sprocket cover had to come off too. Nice and greasy

The front sprocket, chain and rear sprocket actually look like they are in great condition. A small bit of a silver lining!

Definitely seems like there might be some oil leaking out of the middle banjo bolt.

Plenty of room to remove this cover now.

I started at this bolt, and worked around clockwise just as before. Slowly loosening each one a small bit at a time.

It looks like all 10 bolts are exactly the same.

I found this rubber plug on the bottom. It doesn't look like I needed to remove it in retrospect.

Slowly removing the cover.

As I removed the cover a gear slowly started to fall off. You can see it almost about to fall in this picture.

I caught most of the parts before they fell. Only one small bit fell into the oil. Here's the case after complete removal.

I caught three of the four bits that fell. Not too terrible.

And I fished out the fourth. It looks like one of the two needle bearings.

All four parts, in a semi-exploded view.

And the shape of the gasket that I need to purchase.

It was at this point that I decided to call it quits. I didn't have as good of a view of the doohickey as I had hoped without the proper tools. The small part I could see, looked fine. And there was no evidence of metallic pieces or shavings.

I'm still extremely curious where the dark rubber bits on the oil screen came from. Does anyone have ideas?

Huge thanks to my friends Zach and Chris for giving me a hand with the photos and tools today.

Old Kiwi#99 · Jan 20, 2013

Nice writeup,
If I understand the oil supply to the top end, it is pressure fed to the left side cam bearings, but splash fed to the right side ones. If the engine was running for any time with the bike on its left side (ie tip over), that would interrupt the oil feed enough to fry the right side bearings, perhaps.

The hard black rubber in the oil strainer could be from the rubber surround (damper) of the balancer chain drive sprocket.
Excess balancer chain tension would cause the chain to dig into the rubber. The oil screen in my '08 was perfectly clean even after 28000km. The balancer chain has never been adjusted from new. (and because the spring is too long it has no tension anyway . I'll be shortening the spring a turn or two but not so much as to excessively tighten the chain)
.

Kawidad · Jan 20, 2013

I'm in

rectangular · Jan 20, 2013

Old Kiwi#99 said: ↑

The hard black rubber in the oil strainer could be from the rubber surround (damper) of the balancer chain drive sprocket.
Excess balancer chain tension would cause the chain to dig into the rubber.
.
Click to expand...

Interesting! I'll make sure to check that. Is that behind the left side engine case cover? The same side as the stator?

larryboy · Jan 20, 2013

rectangular said: ↑

Interesting! I'll make sure to check that. Is that behind the left side engine case cover? The same side as the stator?
Click to expand...

Yeah, balancer chain sprockets are on the stator side.

Pretty typical for certain years on the gasket sealer worms clogging up the screen. 2004 seems to be the worst, worse than your pictures. You now have a solid cause for the engine damage. Go easy on assembly with the gasket making stuff and make sure to clean the screen again after the rebuild.

rectangular · Jan 20, 2013

larryboy said: ↑

Pretty typical for certain years on the gasket sealer worms clogging up the screen. 2004 seems to be the worst, worse than your pictures. You now have a solid cause for the engine damage.
Click to expand...

Wow! Worse? Does this happen at the factory? That's just mind boggling if that's the case.

I've heard that these engines are supposedly bulletproof, but I'm sure finding a lot of bullets. Ha.

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