I have 65k on mine since 2002 (would have more except the military sent me away for four summers) and still love it. Thought I would buy a new bike this year, but, couldn't find anything I would rather have. Great highway bike, great around town!!
Now that high school is out for the summer will Tacoma be riding more or will he just come here and whine all summer because the people that actually know him refuse to let him hang out with them. And he could have 10 different brands of scooters and they still won't like him.
If I have understood your point correctly, you are saying that it does not matter that the scooter is basically German - the ONLY thing that matters to you is that it has a Kymco motor and that is where all the value lies. My understanding is that Spandau is busy producing Boxers and 4- & 6-cylinder K engines and the alternative would be to have no scooter at all. BMW have bought the rights to the engine and will not allow Kymco to use the 650cc motor in their own bike. However Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha make great alternatives for those who feel that BMW might be cheating them out of something.
I like Honda bikes, however in the age of the Internet their service is lacking. When an order was made for a Honda part I was told to check back in four days. I came back in four days and it had not arrived. I was asked why I came in when they will call me when it comes in. I said because you asked me to come in and get the part today. I called in to check the next day and was told don't call us we will call you. This went on for three weeks. I just order a new front hoops tire for my Silver Wing on line with Motorcycle Superstore on Wednesday they said it would arrive today Thursday at my door by UPS. It did! Wright part, great service reporting my parts progress in shipping, on time delivery and 40% cheaper I like local business but they need a better business plan. My last order through the dealer took a week as I was told and my mechanic did a great job.
Honda today is ultraconservative. I say that as the new owner of a 2005 BigRuckus. Aside from the end-of-civilization styling, the machine has...not so much to recommend it. No tach. No temperature gauge...I had BOTH on my VOG 300. The power seems derated for a 250...my Chinese VOG has a Linhai Yamaha 275 that will eat it for lunch. I understand there are differences between different engines of similar displacement...but, really. A Honda getting its backside whupped by a CHINESE CLONE? I write it off to Honda's conservative nature. They put drum brakes on the rear of the BR. They put drum brakes on ALL wheels of the Nighthawk 250. WHY?!...except that Honda's people felt it was "good enough."
I've never ridden a maxi scooter, but from everything I've read, both the Silverwing and the Burgman 650 will blow the TMax away, both in handling and engine performance. I hate to get into the BMW thing, but I just have to wonder what makes them so much more expensive than the usually more reliable Japanese bikes. BMW used to build their own bikes, and they really were German. They were well built, had the BMW name, heritage, and reputation. But a BMW built by Kymco? I'm not knocking Kymco. They build great scooters. But they don't sell them for BMW prices. I still remember when the first F650 came out 2 decades ago, with a non BMW Rotax engine, chain drive, tube type tires, and no centerstand. I was sure BMW was making a huge mistake, and I still feel that way.
I'm not sure what you are reading but I've owned and or ridden all of the above. The Tmax is far and away the best handling and overall performer. The Burgman 650 has more power which shows itself on the highway.
I recently bought a '12 Silverwing, having just unloaded my '09 TMAX and '09 MP3 400. My purchase decision was heavily based on availability of ABS, which is unavailable on either unit (in the US - Europeans have had ABS TMAXs available for several years, the MP3s don't offer it). I won't ride paved roads without an ABS bike/scooter, just my preference. TMAX vs Silverwing - for general riding (not hotdogging) either one is an excellent choice (ignoring the ABS issue). The TMAX is roughly 60lbs. lighter and a bit easier to handle around the garage and get on the center stand. The SW is a bit more of a chore to handle, particularly re: the center stand function. On the road, the TMAX is a tad bit more flickable but you really have to be pushing it to exceed the Silverwings capabilities. The MAX is fast and its hard not to find yourself riding a bit faster than intended. The SW has a more sedate feel but more than than adequate power and is very capable in the twisties for most applications. The SW is a very fine ride in just about any situation and is a very stable. I'd basically say that the differences are moot unless you're into really pushing the envelope at high speed. For generally riding, whether around town, twisties or slab, both of them are quite satisfying and competent rides. If your orientation is very high end hotdogging, the TMAX is a better choice, but don't expect to leave the SW completely in the dust. Yes, you can cut the tight curves a bit faster but you'd better be a really skilled rider to do so and the SW won't be far behind you. For a long distance tourer, I'd say the SW has the nod but its not a huge difference, either one would work. Ergonomics are a totally personal matter, but my preference is for the SW. Its lower seat height permits flatfooting for me (5' 8.5") while the TMAX was a bit taller than I preferred. Dependability on both units is excellent and dealership/service availability is probably equal. Overall, they are both very fine rides, but without ABS - the TMAX had to go. My riding environment is deer infested backroads and ABS has saved my butt in quite more than one situation. When Yamaha USA finally clears the old, non-ABS TMAX inventory and imports the ABS TMAX, I'll be one of the first buyers. There is enough difference to make it a fine stablemate to my SW and I always have at least two rides on hand. JMO
Here is a link from a 2011 Maxi scooter shootout. Four riders, Three of them picked the Tmax, The fourth liked the Burgman because it was a big comfy couch.. or words to that effect. http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/14/10...2011-Maxi-Scooter-Shootout--For-My-Money.aspx Here are some quotes. “The Yamaha TMAX was the clear winner of the day. Performance-wise, none of the other scooters came close" "The TMAX proved itself to be very versatile and easily out-performed all the other scooters here in a variety of different manner; whether it’s freeway commuting, tight city navigating, or leisurely beach cruising' " it’s not only quick, but agile as well, and it has a great set of brakes on it." You will have fun taking this scooter on day rides or just putting around town. "Hands down the best of the bunch.” "there’s no question the Yamaha destroys the competition." " it's almost seems unfair; the others never stood a chance" "When you have a properly quick little machine that handles like an entry-level sport-bike, can fit a human head under the seat will do stoppies on the brakes, and yet still features the convince of an automatic transmission, there’s no comparison." This is more or less the feeling I came away with but while I agree with many of the things the poster above said, I don't think you have to push the limits and race around in order to experience the superior performance of the TMAX. You can feel it going 25mph and entering your first turn. Having said I also liked the Burgman for different reason.. The SilverWing, I kept for two months and sold it. Just did'nt do it for me. My response was directed to the person who talked about the Swing and Burgman easily outperforming the TMAX. Not even almost.
mrnoitall Not carping with your preferences whatsoever, but I'm a bit surprised you didn't care for the SW at all. Having just come off my TMAX to the SW I wasn't overly disappointed with its performance compared to the TMAX. No question the Max is more sport bike oriented but I haven't found the SW lacking in any general performance areas for my riding style. To each their own. I have noticed that I don't have a tendency to be going faster than intended with SW - on the TMAX, that was a frequent experience. Thats probably a good thing for me It was inexplicable that the referenced Shootout comparison (Kymco Xciting 500Ri, Yamaha TMAX, Aprilia’s Scarabeo 500ie & Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive) didn't include the SW. I'd have been curious to see the rankings were it included. Its also unfortunate that they didn't include an MP3 500, could have been a much better assessment had they included both, IMO. My view considers the 650 Exec as a mini Goldwing - great ride but at 613 lbs. too heavy for me. I wasn't real comfortable with it on some of the tight farm roads I frequent compared to the alternatives but a buddy who owns one is perfectly happy with it and we ride the same roads. The SW nicely fits the bill for everyday rides, whether slab or backroads, for me and importantly, at 551 lbs. is at the top of my weight comfort zone. The Max is unquestionably in a class by itself and at 489 lbs. easier to deal with, but absent ABS, it had to go. I miss it and look forward to getting another one when the ABS unit is available here in the US. I view the 650, SW and TMAX fulfilling somewhat different, yet overlapping riding segments. They are all excellent rides - it simply depends on which one fits an individual's personal preferences. To say that one is better than the other (I'm not referring to your comments) indicates to me that the "assessor" is uninformed and lacks real world experience with the 3 scooters. As noted previously, I've owned a TMAX & SW; my 650 experience is limited to a few hundred miles on a buddy's scooter - outstanding on the highway, super plush ride, huge power - but I could never handle/live with it due to its weight. Its a bit amusing that some comments came from people who have never ridden or owned maxi-scooters and/or others who presume that owners of other scooters give a rat's ass what someone else rides. Such is life. Ride safe.
I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that I was riding a Yamaha Morphous at the time which was the most stable and smoothest two wheeled vehicle i've ever owned. It was embarrassingly slow getting up to speed but ran like a train on tracks at 65mph. After getting used to the Morphous, the Silver Wing seemed like a truck. It vibrated a lot, made more noise than I thought it should and believe it or not did not feel as stable and secure on the highway compared to the Morphous. The bike had 800 miles on it when I bought it, Another shocker was the fuel economy. I was using it for the same daily commute which was about 30 round trip miles mostly highway. I never figured the mileage out exactly but I was putting a LOT more money into the gas tank compared to my smaller bikes... No surprise there. I did'nt give it much of a chance. I only put a few hundred miles on it. It was mostly the vibration , more so things on the bike vibrating.. not feeling it in the seat. The CVT made lots of vibrating noise. I thought perhaps something was off with the bike but many others who owned the bike said the same thing.
The rollers are an essential replacement on the Silver Wing. I put some Dr. Pulleys in mine and it smoothed the bike out so much.
I'm not big on mods, I find that as human beings, we often perceive different as better. It's hard to image why the rollers in the Swing would cause issues considering Honda's vast experience designing scooters. It's also irritating to me that one should have to spend more money to address issues on a $9000 scooter. With respect to changing out rollers, I always think of the guy on youtube who "upgraded" the rollers on his TMAX and damaged the bike when the final gearing could not handle the increase in torque caused by the lighter weights.
Lighter rollers would not increase torque. They would just hold it in a lower gear longer. Engine still puts out the same torque and transmission is designed for the engine out-put regardless of the belt position.
There was a definite shudder on the Silver Wing as the stock rollers got spinning. It didn't last long and was not awful, but I put in the sliders and it went away. I agree with you on a lot of mods, but this is definitely better than stock. I can't even say that the sliders would benefit all bikes, but it is a common upgrade for the Swing because it is great at smoothing out the bike. I put in 2g lighter weights, but I don't know how much that really changed the bike. I could have easily put in sliders that were the same weight as stock but I thought, best case scenario, I added a bit of speed on my takeoffs.
