That's where the difference is. No way am I going to throw a shiny new road bike on it's side to fix a flat, unless it is a matter of life and death. To me putting a road bike on it's side is the same as crashing. When I had an EX500, I found out than many EX500 owners had destroyed their engines by dropping their bike. Apparently the oil pump lost prime (which it does not do while changing the oil with the bike upright) and the engine ran for 30-40 seconds without oil pressure after the bike was picked up and started. Several threads about it on ex-500.com.
I don't have any problem propping the bike up with something under the swingarm or under the engine in order to fix or change tires.
I see this as all about choices. I hope JerryH fits on the GW and it works out for him. On paper, it seems to tick the boxes that work for him to have the confidence to do the rides he wants. Hell, some people won't buy a bike because it only came in certain colors and not what they wanted. I see the centerstand thing as at least a reasonable desire to have when plunking money down on a bike OR that it have tubeless tires. Very reasonable. Basically, either go oldschool all the way (tubes, centerstand, kick start would be great) or modernize (tubeless, fuel injection and so on). I like having choices in the 250 range. Used to be the Rebel and Yamaha 250 (v-twin even!) were it. Personally, I am hung up on Fuel Injection. The only bike I have that has carbs is my Ural. As soon as my kid is old enough to ride on the back with me, I am selling the sidecar rig. I gotta have FI. Where is my internet picture ? I like all the choices we have now. Hopefully more will come!
Sure, choices are great. Options are awesome. I know that people have preferences, and that's perfectly cool. But to insinuate that a bike is only suitable for staying local where you have cell phone coverage and a buddy with a trailer nearby to pick you up, simply because it doesn't have a centerstand or tubeless tires?
He did preface the insinuation with "to me" which I take to mean, for his needs, it doesn't fit. He isn't comfortable riding beyond X range on a bike he can't repair the way he wants. So, if preferences are "perfectly cool" then why are you laughing at his preference? I don't get it.
Silk, Don't you think since JerryH claims to be a mechanic that he should be able to fix a tube type tire with the aid of a improvised lift?
I won't speak for anyone else, but, 90 percent of Jerry's post are very negative about any new bike. We have read over and over that a bike with tubes is not for him. O.K.
So did I. On an old beat up Bultaco dirt bike. Huge difference in laying that on it's side, and messing up a nice new street bike. Bikes used to come with centerstands. There was a reason for that. There still is. The same reason. So why don't they have centerstands any more? They certainly never did any harm, nor were they expensive. Now everybody wants new technology, FI, ABS, traction control, but they are still happy with tires that use late 19th century technology. So how does that make sense? And I have improvised a way to fix flats on an XT225 and a Rebel 250. In the form of a stand that bolted to the right side footpeg brackets, forming a centerstand when combined with the stock sidestand. Using it required removing the right side footpeg. Not likely to work on a large heavy bike, or one that does not have a location to bolt something to the right side, like a bike with welded on footpeg brackets. Goldwings still have centerstands. So does the BMW R-GS. Why? they both have tubeless tires. You can buy aftermarket centerstands for many bikes, the DR650 and KLR650 come to mind. If they did not sell, why would they still be on the market after all these years?
Jerry, I just slip a jackstand under the side of the bike in the garage and use that with the sidestand to work on either the rear wheel or front wheel.
Now I get it. Those posts have nothing to do with the GW250, just people not agreeing with each other. "X reason is not valid to me because I could do it my way..." Carry on then... The GW250 has a 6 speed trans. I suspect that will make it a little more highway friendly and maybe not as buzzy at those speeds compared to a TU with a 5 speed. Maybe a demo day will come around in 4 months...
I have also done it that way. At home. But it is difficult to carry a jackstand or jack along with you, especially on a small bike. In your garage you can even use a bike lift, and get both wheels off the ground. On dirt bikes and lightweight dual sport bikes, I just lift them up onto a 5 gallon bucket. But again, that would not work very well on the side of the road or trail. As for tube type tires, they make absolutely no sense at all to me on a street bike, and since wire spoked rims (ala BMW R-GS) capable of using tubeless tires are available, it makes even less sense. You can have wire spoke wheels AND tubeless tires. And then there is the venerable centerstand, which bikes had for decades that worked great. I will not ride a nice bike with no way to fix a flat tire other than laying it on it's side. Part of this is indeed just an argument about tubeless tires vs tube type tires, and a centerstand vs no centerstand. I know how I feel about it, and so does everyone else. So for everyone who wants to travel long distances on a bike with tube type tires and no centerstand, all I can do is wish you the best of luck. You know the possible consequences, and I assume you are prepared to deal with them. Debate over. Back to the GW250. I have yet to actually see one, or sit on one, much less ride one. But I have high hopes for this bike. It seems to meet all my requirements for a small street bike, other than places to carry stuff, but I'll figure that out somehow. It will come down to how comfortable it is for someone my size. It does not need to be fast. I put 20,000 highway miles on a Honda Rebel. It was a great small bike, just a bit too small for me to fit on properly. The Nighthawk 250 was way better, just as reliable, and came with an optional centerstand. But it is no longer available. I will not buy anything else until I have had a chance to check out the GW250. If it fits, I will buy it. If not, there is currently no other 250 out there I want.
I have a lightweight aluminum prop that I carry with me for this purpose. It works beautifully. But I used to not carry that either...I would just stick the hard luggage under the swingarm for chain maintenance, and just make do for tire problems. It's just not a serious problem. I like tube-type tires because they free me from outside assistance...I can get the tires off the rim without a tire machine and I can patch tubes independently of outside assistance on the road. For this reason, I prefer tube-type tires.
A couple years ago I had a Kawasaki KLR650 and rode the heck out of that bike. Rode year round rain or shine in the Seattle/Tacoma area in Wa. State. Finally wore out the original tires. Bought new tires an replaced them in my garage the old fashioned way....with 3 tire irons, talcum powder, and window cleaner (as a bead lube--works fine) on the garage floor. For the rear I used the sidestand and a very small bottle jack under the r/side footpeg bracket. When I did the front I think I just used again the sidesatnd and moved the small bottle jack forward under the engine. I've seen where guys made a device made of a threaded steel tube and redi rod to use in conjunction with the sidestand to get the rear off the ground. A gizmo like this could be packed away pretty easily and taken on trips. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wJvQ_Uipgw And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZOdhbmALbM Looks like the first one, the PackJack sells for like $32.95. Not bad for some peace of mind. I bet someone handy with a welder could make up something that would work on the front. I actually rode all over the place and never got a flat while street riding.
Not sure what you mean by "outside assistance" When I have had flats on tubeless tires, I just stuck a plug in the tire, aired it up, and was on my way. With tube type tires, you have to remove the tire from the wheel, and to do that, you first have to remove the wheel from the bike. Most of my flats on tube type tires required new tubes, most tubes pop like a balloon when punctured, causing a big rip in the tube, or else whatever punctured it wiggles around in the tire before you get stopped, and cuts the tube up. Some bikes are virtually impossible to get the wheel off of, especially the rear wheel. Ever try to remove the rear wheel from a Kawasaki 800 Drifter? Even on my Kawasaki Vulcan 750, which has tubeless tires, removing the rear wheel requires putting the bike on the centerstand, removing the right side muffler (to get the axle out) removing both shocks, to drop the swingarm down, and removing the final drive gearcase, as well as the usual rear brake rod and torque link arm. Even after doing all that, you can just barely wiggle the rear wheel out from between the swingarm and out from under the rear fender. When changing a tire at home, I put a 2x4 under the centerstand to give me more room to get the wheel out.
Most punctures I've encountered I've been able to patch. But I carry spare inner tubes anyway. It isn't any problem to take the wheel off and break the bead on one side to get the inner tube out. I don't trust plugs in tubeless tires, so once it's punctured, I usually throw it out. Then I have to find someone with a tire machine to get a new tire on. I like tube-type tires because I can do it all myself.
I currently have 3 plugs in the ME880 on the back of my Vulcan 750, and the tire is only about 2/3 worn out. I run tires until the wear bars show, unless they are badly damaged, which can happen to any tire. I also have Ride-On in the rear tire, so there may be even more punctures in it, but I doubt it. I actually found and removed objects from the 3 punctures I plugged. I found 2 of them while checking the tires at home, it may have been ridden hundreds of miles with the object stuck in the tire without going flat.
If you go to cycletrader.com and do a search for Suzuki GW250 you will come up with 20some dealers. They all say call for price. One even says "On sale now". But I get the feeling none of them really have this bike in stock. So, how the hell can they say on sale now if they don't have any?? Bait and switch or what?? I hope someone in this thread that is the first one to actually find one at a dealer will let the rest of us know.
