Dekka came in today. Battery was 12..6 or 12.7V depending on which Harbor Freight precision measuring device you like. My Fluke LCD display has turned black and is now unusable. Anyway, put it on Optimate 4 charger, went to dinner, and it now reads full charge. Again, 13.6V according to the HF meter. Now that Georgia is in the middle of a heat wave, the bike starts pretty good. I will probably let the new one set a bit, until I see further signs of slow starts. Now to change the FD and Trans fluids... Thanks for the help!
If the Odyssey is half as good as the Deka-East Penn- batteries we have in use I will be very happy they really do make a fine product; http://www.dekabatteries.com/ snowbound, five years is good, I don't think I got five years from two BMW batteries combined....!
Noob question. My 2011 R1200GSA has a spacer block under the battery. Do all GS's have this spacer? Seems like a good opportunity to install a taller battery.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
You got a bike with a YTZ12 battery in it. BMW is testing this battery. Bikes without this spacer came stock with a YTX14 battery, and a YTX14 sized battery will fit in it without the spacer, of which I think the Deka ETX14 is the best. The YTZ12 performs poorly in the 12GS when it's cold or you leave the key on for a significant time before starting, it's an 11 amp hour, 210 CCA battery when new, but degrades rapidly. It is made by Excide/Yuasa but BMW labeled
Well that's interesting...I took a ride yesterday. It was 41'F. My bike definitely labored when I started it. JoelW; is this a Deka battery? Seems like a good price: [URL="http://shop.advanceautoparts.com
I don't know which is rare for me in the world of batteries. It is defiantly an East Penn DEKA case. It has the DEKA terminal cover and spacers. It also has DEKA forged posts and no one else does it that way. All other AGM manufactures use casts posts except for Odyssey who also forges but has them recessed. Problem is, if I log into an old purchase account (terribly lax security of employer from 11 years ago, but I can't actually buy anything with it as it would just show up on their loading dock 2000 miles away) which does a HUGE volume with East Penn, and quote purchasing the ETX14 1000 units at a time, I get a cost of 53.82 per each. Its hard for me to imagine anyone selling this battery for 55 bucks! I will rattle someones cage over at East Penn tomorrow and see what the deal is. In either case, weather it is or no, storing a battery on the shelf forever without charging it is terrible for a battery and ensures it will crank poorly and die early. When buying a battery from anything other then a reputable battery wholesaler, Take a multimeter with you and measure the battery terminal voltage. 12.6 volts and higher is good. If the battery is below 12.6 volts, don't buy it no matter who made it and how cheap it is. This by the way is one of the reason replacement batteries at motorcycle dealerships almost always die early, they don't charge them as they sit and the batteries are half worn out before you even install them.
Yep, the $55 "Magna Power" battery here Is made by East Penn. DO NOTE, it's a ETX14L battery. The L is important because it means the positive terminal is on the LEFT which is not a common configuration which MAY be why they are so cheap. Not many bikes take an L battery and not many bike cables would reach. This increases the odds that these batteries are old, so I wouldn't buy from them unless you go to the store, multimeter in hand, and measure at least a 12.6 terminal voltage. 12.5 means it's set for at least 6 months without being charged and will quit early on you. I should have looked at he picture closer and noticed the "EPM products" at the bottom. EPM= East Penn Manufacturing. Anyway calling East Penn gave me the chance to rattle their cage about all the "PBEQ" CCA and AH ratings popping up on Lithium batteries which is annoying me heavily, but thats another story. As I said before, but deserving being said again: Lead acid batteries have a 10+ year shelf life IF and only IF they are charged once every 3 months so that terminal voltage remains at or above 12.6 volts. If the battery sits in some distributors warehouse for 6 months, then on the retail floor for 6 months without ever being charged, it is junk and though it may start your bike, it's life expectancy is compromised and it will die on you rather early. If ordering online, I don't know Bohannon well, but have heard good things and both customers I know of who ordered from them received batteries with nearly 12.8 terminal voltages, so very fresh Bohannon Battery ETX14, currently $73, free shipping I know these guys well and trust them 100% The battery is labeled "Big Crank" but it is a 100% Deka East Penn. Battery Mart Currently $71 with free shipping
I guess I am doing something wrong. I have an 06 (first owner purchased new in April 06 and I bought it in November of 06) that is still on the stock battery. I have 62K on it and use a Battery Tender when it will be sitting for over a few weeks. Of course it will now die on me tomorrow and I will have to review this thread to determine what I to replace it with.
Z50, the longevity that some members experience with batteries is very interesting to me-there is a variable and I tend to believe that 'tending' the battery is not it as I have always had our battery charger, tender, attached to the bike during extended periods of non use or after a few days of not riding during the 'season'. As I only have the bike serviced at a very well respected dealer I am confident that I can also eliminate mechanical issues with the bike as related to the charging system. I really would pay to get this figured out.
Is this accurate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzpYsLDUAM I realize that it is not a Shoria battery but the general consensus appears to be that the battery (any LiFe) must wake/warm up during cooler weather before it will send full capacity out; if so, why the attraction. Certainly the massive voltage drop, I saw 4-5volts, cannot be 'good' for the Harley.
If anyone is interested the metal jacket PC680 was a REAL tight fit in my 2000 R1150GS, I wouldn't buy MJT for that model bike. I just twisted the OEM cables to sit on the top and dispensed with any L's or other mods. YMMV
The biggest single variable is how the battery is treated before you get it. BMW does not open the crate your bike is shipped from Germany in, so the battery sits, self discharging for as long as it takes to go from Germany to the warehouse, then it sits in the destination country till a dealer allocates and receives it. Next up to sits in the dealership until they uncrate it, which is supposed to be right away but space is a premium and if the model is already represented on the floor, well bikes store easier in crates. Next the bike is uncrated and PDI'd at which point the battery is usually charged but depending on the hurry, perhaps not completely. Lastly the bike sits on the sales floor and is supposed to be charged once a month, but many dealers perform poorly on this front. Also occasionally the key gets left on by consumer or sales person partially or completely depleting the battery. This plays hell with life expectancy of the first battery. With subsequent batteries, newer BMW's have very high parasitic draw so long times off maintenance chargers are hard on them. On very new bikes the basic controller or ZFE as BMW calls it sometimes glitches and fails to shut down 2 minutes after bike is switched off creating a 0.8 to 2.3 amp draw till the battery is destroyed which the customer perceives as a sudden failure. This isn't common but absolutely does happen and far more often to some then others. It is almost impossible to catch because there is no outward sign. Most dealerships identify charging system faults by guessing or a process of elimination because there is very little training in electrical diagnosis by BMW and the feeder schools that are supposed to teach this before a tech goes to factory training have pretty much a 100% pass rate that has nothing to do with the quality of teaching or student. I know many BMW certified master technicians that could not tell you the 4 cycles of a 4 cycle engine. i.e. they do not understand how internal combustion works. So regardless of how nice the service manager is or how competent the technician seems at dealing with common problems, most don't know anything beyond the first thing about charging systems. The old GEL batteries held up fairly well but BMW went to an Excide manufactured YTX14 battery that has major quality control issues. Most fail pretty early but that still leaves some that last well. When someone purchases a replacement battery of any brand, the same thing holds. How long has it sat depleted? Dealerships are supposed to charge inventoried batteries and record open circuit terminal voltages before each charge, discarding battery if the terminal voltage is below 12.6, but none I know of do, and the same goes for parts stores. Most people that buy batteries from large high volume distributors get fresher batteries, but even purchasing from a dealership or parts outlet, some will get lucky and get a fresh battery. Average temperature is a big factor for battery longevity. High average ambient temperatures in places such as Texas, Florida, southern California, wear out batteries a lot quicker, and people that live in super cold climates AND actually start their bikes in super cold ambient temperatures, although being in a climate batteries last fine, will notice battery age sooner as starting in such extremes will make a battery seem failed that would work for another year in a moderate climate. People in moderate climates always report the longest battery life. Other issues like high resistance connections, for example, the ground on the engine near where the tele lever attaches is VERY commonly not torqued and often even cross threaded by the factory. This will rarely be caught by a dealership but wreaks havoc with charging and causes a bike to fail batteries rapidly. Thats the main things I can think of.
It might be okay on a harley, or many BMW bikes, but NOT the boxer. The pinion will chatter when engaging the flywheel and you will tear the crud and teeth off the flywheel. You don't have to crank the bike to warm a LiFePo4 battery, turning the key on and activating the high beam for a period is sufficient. LiFePo4 batteries are not all created equal between manufactures. Chemistries vary as do capacities. I am in the midst of testing 3 brands of LiFePo4 batteries for possible use on 4 adventure bikes I am preping (R1200GSA, F800GSA, Aprilia Caponord) I'm not done, but am seeing big differences between brands, and of course size DOES matter lol
joel tnks; the boxer is inherently harder to start than the Harley? I realize you are still testing the lithium but I can't wait to ask this, do you see the frightening vd shown on the video, this does impact the reliability of the starter, dramatically.
I have had a couple of recent email exchanges with Odyssey support (Kathy), trying to get their view on some of the basic issues. I found their responses informative, but since I'm pretty much a novice in this area, it doesn't take much to reach that bar for me. I posed 2 basic questions: - what is Odyssey policy regarding the minimum OCV required on a 'new' battery before installing? and - should Odyssey chargers only be used with Odyssey batteries, and is it the case that Odyssey chargers may harm other brands of batteries? Her responses were not short, and she also asked that if posted, that they be posted in their entirety. So, I'll do so in the next 2 posts...
Recent email exchanges with Odyssey support (Kathy). QUESTION 1 of 2: what is Odyssey policy regarding the minimum OCV required on a 'new' battery before installing? Odyssey Reply: Good afternoon Dave, The ODYSSEY battery has a storage life (without a load from a full state of charge) of two year or to 12.0V before charging is required, whichever comes first. The minimum ship voltage from the factory is 12.7V OCV and fully charged the battery should have a minimum 12.84V OCV so a battery at 12.53V is just considered discharged and at less than 12.65V charging is recommended prior to installation since most vehicle charging systems are not meant to be battery chargers but maintainers. The ship date code is located below the 8 digit part number in the small white box on the top label of the battery and is in the format of MMYY (Month, Year). I would recommend returning any ODYSSEY battery that is less than 12.0V OCV (out of the box) especially if it is greater than 2 years old based on the ship date code because it has most likely not been maintained properly during storage. There is a list of ODYSSEY approved chargers linked on the ODYSSEY website Product Support page. All chargers have been tested and meet the requirements printed on the top label of the battery. If the battery becomes deeply discharged or requires charging, a standard charger that has a charging current of 40% of the 10 hour amp hour rating of the battery and does not exceed 15.0V could be used to bring the battery up to a high state of charge and once installed in the application the charging system should complete the charging process. Discontinue charging if the battery begins to hiss, vent, or becomes overheated to the point where you cannot maintain physical contact with the battery. This is a sign of overcharging and voltages exceeding 15.0V. The PC535 is a 13Ah battery and a minimum 5A charger would be recommended for charging. A lower amp maintainer can be used to maintain the battery and counteract the parasitic loads of the application provided the float voltage is between 13.5-13.8V and the charger does not exceed 15.0V in any type of reconditioning/equalize/de-sulfation mode. I hope this helps. Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns. Sincerely, Kathy Mitchell ODYSSEY Sales/Support Representative Phone: 660-429-7551 Toll Free: 888-422-0317 Fax: 660-429-1758 Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com Web site: www.odysseybattery.com Corp site: www.enersys.com End of Odyssey Reply
Recent email exchanges with Odyssey support (Kathy). QUESTION 2 of 2: should Odyssey chargers only be used with Odyssey batteries, and is it the case that Odyssey chargers may harm other brands of batteries? Odyssey Reply: Good morning Dave, The ODYSSEY battery must be maintained at a slightly higher OCV than most other products on the market due to the Thin Plate Pure Lead technology and high grade acid used in the production process which effects the overall chemistry of the battery and requires slightly higher charging voltages and charge current than most other batteries on the market. For this reason, proper charging is critical to maximizing the life and performance of the ODYSSEY battery. Unlike most other products on the market, the ODYSSEY battery prefers a high amp charge vs. standard low amp trickle charging for most other products. For cyclic applications (definition located in the ODYSSEY Technical Manual and on the ODYSSEY website approved charger listing PDF) we recommend 40% of the 10 hour amp hour rating of the battery for a charge current or about 5A for the 13Ah PC535 and a float voltage of 13.5-13.8V. If the charger/maintainer has an automatic de-sulfation feature, its use would not be recommended since it typically exceeds 15.0V and by doing so the battery can become overcharged and can go into thermal runaway. Even if the charger meets these requirements then there is the issue of state of charge at the end of the absorption charge that means that for most chargers, the ODYSSEY battery is not fully charged when it goes into float mode when most other batteries are. For this situation, an additional 8 hours in float at 13.5-13.8V should make up the difference and will help insure that the ODYSSEY battery is fully charged. One of the most common causes of non-warranty premature failure is due to consistent undercharging or maintaining the battery (float) in an undercharged condition at less than 13.5V. There are a lot of great chargers and maintainers on the market that work well with most batteries on the market but do not work well with ODYSSEY batteries. That is why we provide a list of ODYSSEY approved 12V chargers that have been tested and work well with the product on the ODYSSEY website Product Support page for your reference. The ODYSSEY 6A OMAX-6A-1B charger would be the ODYSSEY recommended charger for the PC535 ODYSSEY battery. This battery should have a service life of 2-3 times that of a standard wet flooded lead acid battery in the application but will typically begin having issue due to sulfation with 1-2 years if consistently undercharged or maintained in an undercharged condition. Also, just because the charger says it is acceptable for use on AGM product or has an AGM setting, it does not mean it meets the charge voltage requirements of the ODYSSEY battery and there may or may not be another charger setting (GEL, Flooded, etc.) that is better suited to the product based on those charging voltages. http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html is the link to the ODYSSEY website Charger page which contains the recommended 3-step charging profile for maximizing the life and performance of the ODYSSEY battery. http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEYapproved12Vchargers_SEPT2011_000.pdf is the link to the list of ODYSSEY/EnerSys approved 12V chargers and maintainer that have been tested and we know work well with the ODYSSEY product line. Since the ODYSSEY chargers are slightly more aggressive than what is recommended for most other batteries on the market, these chargers are only recommended for use with ODYSSEY 12V batteries and EnerSys TPPL products. For this reason, we suggest contacting any other battery manufacturer before using this charger on other products to ensure that the charging profile and charging current is acceptable for charging that product or just not using the charger at all. If the battery is being maintained (not deep discharge charged such as for seasonal applications like ATVs, motorcycles, street rods, etc.) then a low amp maintainer that meets the float voltage requirements as stated above would be considered acceptable to maintain the battery indefinitely without harming the battery. If the battery becomes deeply discharged, then a standard automotive charger can be used to get the battery to a high state of charge (provided it doesnt exceed 15.0V) then the maintainer or the applications charging system could be used to complete the charging process with riding or driving. Idle charging is not recommended as it may not get the battery to a full state of charge. I hope this gives you a better understanding of the product and proper charge maintenance of the product. Thanks and have a great day! Kathy Mitchell ODYSSEY Sales/Support Representative Phone: 660-429-7551 Toll Free: 888-422-0317 Fax: 660-429-1758 Email: kathy.mitchell@enersys.com Web site: www.odysseybattery.com Corp site: www.enersys.com End of Odyssey Reply