GM Shoddiness & Crappy Build & Materials Quality

I "used" to buy only GM products...had 5 or 6 different ones that I had purchased brand new. Every single one was in the shop multiple times in the first year, and multiple times EVERY year I owned them.

After buying a new Buick Rendezvous (yeah....kick me in the nuts for that one) for the wife, and dumping over $5K in repairs into it BEFORE 40,000 miles, I traded it in on a 2007 Honda Pilot. The Honda has been flawless. The wife has put close to 70K miles on it, and it has NEVER been in the shop for a single repair.

I bought a brand new GMC 1500 4x4 back in '97.....the only problem I had with that....was it wouldn't go into 4 wheel drive (with less than 10K miles on it). You would throw the transfer case lever, and it might or might not engage. And, more often than not, it would suddenly drop out of 4 wheel drive. The dealer actually tried to tell me "that was normal". I had to bully them into finally replacing the entire front axle to solve the issues.

Got rid of that piece of junk, and made the mistake of buying another brand new GMC...this time a 2004 2500HD 4X4 crewcab. That was also in the shop numerous times the first year, and has been each year I have owned it.

Check engine light on all the time, steering wheel "clunk" (they pack the shaft full of grease to quiet it down...that lasts about a month), all of the door handles have fallen off, tie rod ends completely shot, parking brake system completely rusted away, body starting to rot, 4X4 only engages about 50% of the time, engine is a giant pile of rust....and this on a vehicle that is parked in a garage 100% of the time and only has 80K miles on it.

After the GM "bailout", I decided no more....just bought a 2011 Tundra crewmax, and I love it!

Anyone wanna buy a nice GMC 2500HD????

I agree.
For 25+ years i have travelled for a living and always had great luck with GM vehicles, put 369,000 miles on one and 320,000 on my current Z71 Silverado, i have sort of retired the truck to only occasional use due to high miles, cost of ownership has been low on the GM vehicles i have had, seldom needed repair.

Going forward i probably spend my money with Ford, it will be tough for an old diehard GM guy like me but due to Fords business practices and quality improvements i feel they deserve it.

My family owned a used car business for 25 years, and I've worked in garages. From what we've seen, the only good ones made (this does NOT mean good as in far as interiors or paint - just mechanically) were the 4-bolt mains 350 V8's that came in the trucks like that of your Z71 era truck (really, you cannot base your judgement of GM based solely on them as they were truly the odd vehicle that DID go the miles without the headaches) and the Corvettes.

Now this is comparing 1980's, 1990's, and some 2000's models, but overall the trustworthy-sens of the average Ford car or truck to go the miles without major investments was much, much better.

I'm no Ford guy per se, and I'm certainly no GM guy after they started toying with purposely-engineered planned-obsolescence in the late 1970's, and then seeing what they sold (and that which my other set of parents bought into only later to have multiple lemons and/or lawsuits), but I'd own a truck like your Z71 even today. They were better than just about anything out there in as far as reliability.

I'm just writing this so you aren't totally shocked if you stay with GM and end up with one of their numerous not-so-good products. They and Dodge really should have been allowed to close the doors just to give some other entities the chance to do better... but such wasn't the case in Soviet Amerika.

If that motor of yours hasn't been rebuilt, a great idea (especially if the oil pan is leaking to give you an excuse to get in there) is to change out the oil pump for a new stock one (not some high performance one, just a new stock one)... if you still have good compression, with a new stock oil pump that motor can really, really put the miles on (though it's normally done in the high 100k or lower 200k mile range, not on a motor with well over 300k since they'd probably be worn by then).

I have an '02 S10 ZR2 pickup, and it has been a trooper in the year I've owned it: no lost-time breakdowns, no nasty surprises even though approximately six of those months it has been driven with the damage sustained from being assholed by a Peterbilt. The transfer case did give up on 4x4, but I think that had to do with not waiting long enough with the throttle after pushing the 4HI button on an icy parking lot. It wasn't a tough or expensive replacement.

Consequently, I really don't have much to bitch about as far as reliability goes, but I do have complaints about the lack of sense that went into (too) many aspects of its design/engineering. In fact, I am constantly amazed by the stupidity of it. Examples:

- A 4-wheel-drive system engineered such that when a switch on the transfer case fails, the entire vacuum system gets filled with ATF. When this gets filled up, it drips into the ashtray on certain model years.

- A throttle cable that cannot be adjusted for stretch, so after it gets stretched out, you cannot open the throttle all the way. The accepted solution is to crimp a split-shot fishing sinker or two on the cable at the pedal. Mine have since fallen off and the process of their installation in that cramped space is so hateful I refuse to do it again.

- This applies to S10 Blazers only AFAIK, but if you have to replace the blower motor resistor (as I did), you have to CUT it out of the heater housing. Same with the blower motor. What do you have to do to put the heater housing right after replacing these? Thank God I don't know.

- Oil cooler/filter hoses with aluminum crimps that-- wait for it-- EXPAND WHEN HEATED. This means they cover the underside of your truck with leaked oil and fuck up your transmission mounts.

- A cupholder that is ideally positioned to spill your drink when you shift into 5th gear. Good plan, guys.

These to me are ridiculous lapses of good sense, but what do I know? I'm no engineer.

And a POS Saturn (a brand which the FEDS forced GM to drop) proves this how?

I own a GMC (Canyon), this is my first GM product. I'd shop them again. As I said before 100k miles with two minor recalls, that's it. The Cruze is an interesting car.

I rent many cars for work, so I can sample new-ish cars all the time. The Cruze was pleasantly surprising as far as trans/engine, cabin quietness go. However, the suspension bottomed out in a place where none of the other vehicles did. I am not saying that the car needs to be scrapped because of that, but it struck me me as odd.

Ko

The best police vehicles I ever drove were GM's...the Tahoe and the late 80's to early 90's Caprice with the 350. You couldn't kill one of those..and we tried..

I've had a couple of GM's over the years. The worst POS of any vehicle I ever owned was a 1993 Z-28. The car was so bad GM bought it back (this was before the lemon law).

I'm driving a 2000 Corvette Z06. The car has the same shitty interior as my 1993 Camaro. The car only has 50,000 miles and has had quite a few electrical issues..including the dreaded steering lock malfunction which leaves you totally fucked and unable to move the car. (GM is aware of this problem and could give a shit)

The Ford Supercrew which is my primary vehicle has been rock solid. I've had great service from every Ford I have owned (2 F150's) (1 Ranger) (3 Mustang GT's).

Not the prettiest, but with 250,000+ my '93 chevy pu is still going strong, change oil and filter every 3-4 months regardless will full syn, yes that varies on brand, Valvoline, Mobil, Rotella , and Amsoil, regular maintance, small things, cosmetic need fixed, only strandings once for 20 minutes fuel pump. Finally beat it into submission, also had to replace stock computer. So all and all I have a paid for truck that gets me where I want to go every day, take that new truck payment and buy more motorcycles and stuff. Have two, now want a trailer to pull behind the motorcycles. But I am scared to buy new when the wheels rust off this one.

What is the recall number for Honda and Toyota this year?

We have a Sienna, 2005, bought it brand new and now has 189,000 miles on it. Three recalls, no big deal as there was no fuss or muss. We just never warmed to it. It feels cheap and flimsy, dash, doors, etc. seem hard and thin. Oh, and it is impossible to keep the front end aligned. It eats tires, and we get the thing rotated religiously. Wheels aren't bent, camber and toe also go out quick. Maybe a fluke? But man it is getting on my nerves.

My 2000 4Runner has 200,000. Has always felt like a more solid vehicle. But, it is entering that zone. An injector went, not cheap, tranny began clunking and bulking (auto, I have the tow package and have used it but nothing extreme), it doesn't want to go into 4 Hi anymore, and doesn't stay in 4 Low. Power antenna is dead.

It runs well (other than the above mentioned issues) and I get 300 to a tank (about 20 mpg mixed) but it is begining to nickel and dime me. I paid the note off nine years ago, and believe I've gotten my dollars worth. BUT, when I go to buy a new vehicle, Toyota will not be on my list based on their new offerings.

I bought a 97 F150 w/30k on it off Ebay and now it has 120.000 and have put in a starter and not much else. The 4.6 with 4x4 and a long bed is a dog in the mountains though.

Have you put any front end parts into it such as control arm bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, or strut mounts?

You don't have rust issues out there. The body on my truck looked new but the undercarriage looked like a 50 year old steel fishing boat. Yeah, the 230 hp 4.6 is a little anemic if you tow or at high elevation.

I don't think it's fair to judge modern Ford trucks before 200,000 miles, either. The stretch from 200k to 350k miles is where we need to set the bar for how many problems they've given, not a mere 120k (rust belt rusting-through excluded).

My current truck was a rust-belt truck, so eventually (because I didn't replace them all at the same time even though I knew I should) all brake lines blew at ... inopportune times due to rust.

I'm one of the unlucky ones that needs to change a head gasket (at 155k miles) as well, but feel if I did so that I'd easily get 250k out of the motor. Still, that's a ton of headache and / or money that, for a used truck compared the the 4-bolt-mains Chevy V8's of the lat 1980s' and 1990's, shouldn't be an issue in this day and age. So... I'm not happy.

Ending up with the best build for the long-term (so to 350k miles, at least) is really a crap-shoot with any of the vehicles today. No prior experience by consumers, nor 'luck' on the build-quality of the maker, is any indicator of the chances one will buy a new vehicle that will last without a moderate to major issue before 250k miles. It's sad, but nearly all common builders are really trying to skimp where they can, and that can come back to bite us (like with my 1999 head gasket, or perhaps the blame lies in weaker TTY head bolts?).

Remember for ford fairmount.....I tossed one of those into reverse at 70....it just shook...slowed down then started backing up....that thing would not die no matter how hard I tried.

Are your sure

Next you will tell me that the feds forced Pontiac and Olds to be killed.....but what really killed olds was Saturn got all the news olds at the start.

You need to flash back to the early 90's and the "new car buying experence" that Saturn offered people. And it actually worked....look at the numbers....people bought the cars. And Satrun was about as independent as you could be in GM at the time....I know I worked at GM in the late 80's up to about 96 or so......now if you want to talk about the last few years of saturn...yup spot on....it was the same ole same ole....with some europe cars tossed in there with saturn stickers on them.

I am still greatly PO'ed that they killed off the Sky and Solstace....best car GM has made.....had made in a very long time.

The Solstice was one of the very best-looking GM cars I've ever seen, and certainly the most daring for quite some time. It signaled to me that maybe they were starting to get the right idea as far as concept & styling, and ignited a flicker of hope for the home team. Hell, it even redeemed GM for the Aztek.

In typical misguided Generally Moronic fashion, they killed it.

No. There has been no work, other then trying to keep it in alignment done to the front. This has been an issue since we first got it, brand new. First alignment was done one month into ownership after I saw how bald the tires were getting. They did the wheel camber and all there at the Toyota dealer.

We are at the point where at oil changes we need the alignment done (hyperbole, barely). It is getting ridiculous.

I still can't believe they didn't give the Solstice/Sky to Chevrolet or Buick after Pontiac and Saturn were shuttered.

Kick-ass car!

Uh, if its got a Blue interior it's gotta be at least 20 years old, right?


As for the OP, want a long lasting car? Get another Miata for the other foot