What Dual Sport should Honda build next

Yeah, that LukasM guy can be a real jerk.

not quite the user I had in mind

This thread is greatly improved with use of the ignore feature!

This Honda rider is indeed interested in discussion of ....Honda motorcycles!

My dream: 230L to be a 300L, and have similar gas mileage and a 3 gallon tank.

How do you propose to deal with the shitty suspension, dangerous brakes, disposable parts, and possibly the worst riding position in the industry? Their transmissions are notoriously terrible, with large gaps and weird ratios, and the clutches are practically made of paper.

I never could quite understand people that worship one particular brand, especially Hondas. Honda made a few good engines, most notably the XRR and 450. They are experts at mass-producing cheap, long lasting low cc thumpers for South American Countries like Brazil.

They have NEVER shown any serious interest in the dual sport/enduro market and most likely NEVER will.

Their current lineup of bikes are horribly outdated and can be made passable as a decent bike if you throw a shitload of money at it, the amount of money that can buy you a tricked out used LC4 or RFS bike.

They look like a good learners bike though...

I wouldn't suggest someone like ADVWHATEVER should step up to any of the more race focused bikes from any manufacturer until they can out ride the brakes, suspension etc on an under 250 class bike.

Yeah but KTM snobs are even worse.

I like Honda for the XRs. The CRFs are the shit that resides on my boot.

(PS Honda did make a good dual sport out of the dealer, but it didn't come to the US. Oh but it didn't have a ladie's start, so that doesn't count right)

Whats a KTM snob?

I seem to hear the term a lot from people who put crap on the net about KTMs or other euro bikes, and then start throwing the term around when they get corrected.

And from new riders seem to think they can tell what someone is like just by the brand of bike they choose to ride.

But I have never met anyone who has acted any different just because they ride a certain brand of bike.

Torque, not HP is more useful for my riding. My suspension works for my riding, I know from experience, riding with others, having owned other brands of dirt bikes. Better suspension would be great, agreed.

This video demonstrates advantages of small, low RPM torque motorcycles-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9F_6ND3k4&feature=player_embedded

Lots of focus on HP- not always the best indicator. Why have suspension that is not needed? Seems there is some baseline assumption that everyone needs a light mx bike...not at all.

My little 230L has carried me 7k miles in four months including gnarly steep riding where more pipey higher performance 250s and larger have not made it. As well, the 230L was great traveling the WABDR and a few trips cross-state on mountain dirt trails. roads, and two lane roads. From what I have learned, a CRF-X, KTM or Husky enduro would not have been as versatile, trouble free, bulletproof, or maintained 73 MPG on dirt roads and singletrack. Oh, but it sucks for wheelies, but I quit that mostly as a teenager.

If one wants a dualsport as light as the 230L, one would need to buy a Husky or KTM (other euro bikes) and deal with less reliability, more maintenance, and shorter lifespan. Oh, based on my ownership experience and from talking to owners/ riders and reading etc.

My hope would be a little better 60 MPH performance from my dream bike CRF300L!

Spot on....I don't much care who the manufacturer is but the fact is the euro bikes have the market cornered if you want an adv bike with a quality setup, which seems strangely to bring out the troll in some folks...go figure? I hope Honda do make a quality adv bike one day as I'd certainly be interested.









PS: That ignor function is awsome

I only see Honda DS bikes in the city. (true story) Stiff-arming it, white t-shirt, shorts or jeans, no gloves and some sensible old brown shoes.


They don't go on Adv

The 230F is a different motorcycle. Just read the specs. The L is designed to carry a passenger. It seems to me that would allow a stiffer preload on the rear. My rear preload is somewhat stiff unloaded and better with the 40 lb load.As it turned out is what I thought, since the little 230L was designed for a passenger, and a guy and his wife posting here toured on it two-up, I figured it would carry me and my camp gear. It did so well.

Since the 230L is the shortest dualsport, and just one inch longer than my TLR200 I thought it would handle much like the "trials" bike, and it does. Also check the rake and trail- I like that for how and where I ride. If one rides mountains, it can be done on taller bikes yes, but one would know that seat height and wheelbase, rake and trail really help in tight precise maneuvering when like a trials bike or like the 230L.

I offer my experience, confirmed with others on rides in the mountains. Some nice bikes in the mountains here on our rides do not show the 230L anything- more confirmation. I find it interesting what the 230L does. I have ridden the WR250R twice in comparison recently. I have owned other motorcycles and have ridden and traveled on a motorcycle quite a bit- since before many posting here were born. It seems just hard for some to understand.

So I offer genuine discussion, honest conclusions and interesting experience. There seems to be either one or both much ignorance and intolerance in the discussion.

As stated several times- if I wanted to race, huck, roost, I would have a KTM or a CRF-X. If I wanted a big bike to go on the superslab, I like the NCX700 or a 650 BMW. But the 230L is quite unique, and misunderstood since so many do not seem to understand fundamentals.

Again, read the specs and consider something deeper than the bullshit about long travel, high HP, exotic mx or 'race' motorcycles. Learn the implications of rake, trail, powerband, torque v HP and powerband characterstics, wheelbase.

Again, my contribution to this discussion is that I would like Honda to build a 270 lb (curb) CRF 300L with some better suspension and over 70MPG with a 3 gal tank for a dual sport.

Yea, agree to an extent. I would like an XR350 if it were less than 5 years old, so not happening.

Relevant to what to wish for in a Honda dual sport motorcycle, and what I ride, the little dog 230L

My dream: 230L to be a 300L, and have similar gas mileage and a 3 gallon tank.

From the lightest motorcycles thread here- http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18670763&postcount=24

Grreatdog posted-

"When motorcycle weight matters to me is on tough single track trails. My LC4E is an awesome dirtbike on what a lot of riders here consider offroad. But dirt, gravel and even two track is still riding on roads. When you are wrestling your bike over a real trail full off rocks, stumps and logs plus picking it up a few times weight is your enemy.

On a dual sport ride last year I found myself on a AA trail where my 640 was too long to make some of the switchbacks, too powerful too get up the trail without spinning the tire and too heavy to pick up when I crashed with the wheels on the uphill side. I was seriously kicking myself for not being on my little 200 for that trail.

Meanwhile a guy older than me by ten years on an EXC200 went back and rode that trail a second time. I was too whipped and the bike pretty well trashed from three crashes. So I limped back to camp to fix my crash damaged bike and body. I learned something about size and weight that day.
__________________
KTM 640 LC4E
KTM 200 MXC
XT200"
(end Grreatdog quote)

And once again, you fail to make a point...

I thought this thread was about what someone wanted Honda to bring out.

Personally I don't care who brings it out but I want an updated 640 Adventure.

A 650 class thumper with a big tank, some wind protection, good suspension, brakes and the ability the ability to ride out to the middle of nowhere with only a change of tires and gearing from the show room floor.

Maybe modern two-stroke?

Also, I forgot to mention electrical output. It pisses me off that in this age of electronics, so many bikes come with inadequate electrical output to power heated gear and other accessories.

The KTM Freeride 350 is an example of a small precise motorcycle as I advocate-



What I would like to see is similar with some additional features allowing use to travel, eg rear subframe and 3 gal tank.

My dream: 230L to be a 270 lb (wet) 300L, and have similar gas mileage and a 3 gallon tank.

Then come and visit the USA and drop into the pirate lair or the Bring My Wallet show room.

That would be wild since AFAIK Honda has never had a two stroke enduro race bike much less a dual sport. They were already rocking four strokes back in the 70's when all the other Japanese companies were still running two stroke enduros. That is why I rode Yamaha and Kawasaki "enduros" back in those days. Even my KE125 was a rocket compared to an XL125.

MT 250 about 75

CRM250 was a two stroke trail bike in the 90s.

There the only two I can think of off the top of my head.