True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

I dont think the japanese dualsports were ever light,maybe in their claimed weights but not in real life. A 1972 XL250 was over 300 lbs dry,a 2013 CRF250L is over 310 lbs dry. Both are slower then molasses in january and need thousands spent to make them even halfway decent in the dirt. Spending $ is half the fun......right?
How Honda can make a 250 weigh almost as much as a 650 is beyond me. Cheaply built is one way to do it.

The definition of "real" dualsport is as varied as can be,My DR650 is as close to a 50/50 dirt/street bike as Ive tried.

Some how the 530 gets the nod more often then not though,I ride for the fun of it and a good running 530 or any big dirtbike with a plate is more grins per mile then most any other bike. Its OK on the street and they arent that maintenance intensive.

EXACTLY!

people rave about power...

I might add that suspension and brakes is what make a bike go fast, ESPECIALLY an offroad bike...

anyways dualposrts today kick ass and Im still a firm beleiver in that there is no better value, as a dualsport and world traveller than a KLR650...you just cant find it...

08 and up models with the windscreen and better road manners for touring the world you just cant beat it...Ive tried...and seen people try..Ive also seen people go back to a klr when decided to cross borders a lot.

anyways

flame on[/QUOTE]I think that people who like KLR's,will tend to like them alot.

Too me, a true dual SPORT is something that will rail in the twisties and blast through gnarly single track. That's why I love my 450 EXC.

OK!

You know who raves about power? KLR owners.

The argument I see most in these threads is that KTM owners are power junkies compensating for something and that they need to learn that weight, suspension and brakes are more important for riding off road. Apparently while writing this out they forget that KTMs are generally lighter than their direct competition, typically have more suspension travel and it's adjustable, and have brake lines that aren't made of drinking straws.

350EXC - 240 lbs
WR250R - 295 lbs (I was referring to the KLR with shit susp. and brakes, not this bike)
An extra quart of oil and longer lasting valves shouldn't weigh 55 lbs.
Having all of the power I need at 1/4 throttle is a bonus

Thread self destruct: Engaged

are we not on the same page? I happen to love both ktms and klr and now my xr600 I mod them to suit me...

when I had my klr I was fully aware that I had the worst power to weight ratio I also know tons who thought the same way...

I did not know klr owners rave about power, I do know that they always want more, and for a right reason...klrs are underpowered for their weight

I think we are on the same page guys, no reason to hackle me! jajaja

play safe folks

christian

My 690 has spent most of it's life as a motard. Mainly because it is hands down the funniest road bike I've ever ridden. The thing lives to eat up curvy mountain roads. It's pretty obvious that's it's true element. As a dual sport, a couple things hurt it, mainly weight. Even at 310 lbs, that is still porky! The FI is not ideal for riding single track, and the gearing isn't wide enough.

Don't forget or for those that didn't know, all of the motorcycle manufacturers used to lie through their collective teeth about their weights and to a lesser degree their horsepower. It was only a few years ago the EU cracked the whip and told them to clean up their acts or get fined in a big way, and they'd be checking. The US government also followed suit, so the figures of today are more accurate for a reason.

I would say that is very correct

Taking the mentality of riders out of the situation, it also needs to be noted the changing physical environment. As sad as it sounds, lots of roads have been paved in the last 20 years! Possibly this is an indirect reason, but quite valid at that. Can't vouch for the world, but the rideable ds areas are shrinking this area of the country. Do they exist? Yeah for sure! Just a bit farther... I can only imagine many individuals feel this effect as well, and are purchasing more "heavy" bikes for the ride there than before?

Whatever the current affairs of ds bikes is, however, one thing is for certain. Developers are doing the right thing (business-wise, at least) seeing as they're everywhere haha!

Exactly, it's not like it's an either or thing. You can have plenty of power and great suspension all in one package. You can even get all that with light weight thrown in!

wow, well said

unfortunately for our small country the price of progress is losing land...and your words ring loudly...

in order for more people to have access to transportation, and therefore WORK more and more rural roads, land, and awesome terrain, sometimes virgin rainforest, etc..get paved over

yesterday afternoon while doing my weekly solo ride. I ride my usual beach up to the mountains and san salvador route...about a 2 hour climb...

I got stuck for almost an hour waiting for a bulldozing team to clear the road...halfway up it was all terraced and getting ready to be paved...all this comotion and noise...on a normal beaituful quiet scenic ride...

I ride solo all the time..and I notice a lot...the price we pay for progress is HIGH...and I no doubt acknowledge that bikes will change as "progress" gets made

history says so.

I had a Honda XR650L. OK but very underpowered for 650cc. I had a 2008 KLR 650. Very versatile and power was acceptable, but very top heavy and downright dangerous trying to go fast off road even with suspension upgrades. Then I sprung for the KTM 690. Awesome power, check! Great suspension, check! Great brakes, check! Handles well at speed in the dirt, check! I am not a KTM snob despite currently owning two of them. I buy from the brand that makes what I want. What would really be great is if someone built a street legal clean burning two stroke. No valves! No cams! Seems like the technology is getting close. In the 70s I had a Penton Mint 400. It was a rebadged and slightly modified KTM. A big air cooled two stroke. It was street legal too. A true nutters bike. I think it weighed around 250-270 lbs. But not really a dual sport in today's sense as you had to put pre-mix in the tank and it had a fuel range of around 45 miles!

I wasn't heckling you specifically, but I needed somebody to quote, and you wrote "power" and "flame on" in the same post

What I was trying to say is that the arguments about power typically start when the KLR collective assumes that the only reason to buy a KTM is "more power"

There's a lot to be said for new and improved, as well for old crude and easily repaired. I can rationalize either.

On paved roads, where tow trucks can come get me when I call on my cell phone, I don't mind the latest of complex wonders that can't be repaired except by trained professionals armed with an arsonal of fancy tools.

When I'm somewhere out way off the beaten path, I'd rather have a machine I can fix with a rock and two dead lizards. That's a personal preference.

Weight, power, etc have all varied throughout the years for all kinds of machines. I like them light and skinny myself. I'll willingly sacrifice power to have a machine that feels more nimble and controlable to me. Particularly for adventure type riding. It's embarassing to be stuck just because I can't pick my bike up.

That must be why I own a Harley Road King, with fuel injection. That's light, and nimble, and easily repaired on the side of the road.

Then too, I also own an old Honda XL500, with drum brakes.

I see...

nope there are other reasons...wieght and suspension mostly

I think emissions has a lot to do with it.
Heavy big exhausts, quiet air intakes, lean set mixtures, stuff added on like air injection, vapor recovery, water cooling to partly make for the power loss from all the above, that adds weight up high, add in some beefy long travel suspension to the weight pile.

It seems like a lot of modern dual sports are down on power from what they could produce.
The vacuum carb bikes being the worst.

With the addition of cats in the exhaust, add another 20 pounds at least, for the cat and all the metal to deal with the heat.

Yup emissions most definitely add weight. I'd say the stock muffler on the 690 is at least 10 lbs heavier then any aftermarket one mainly due to the cat built into it. I've probably trimmed at least 15 lbs off mine just de-EPA'ing it.

what are you down to?

I wish I could weigh my bike correctly...

Just take out your bathroom scale, roll on it with your bike (staying beside ..) and read front and rear wheel successively, then add the 2 values

L

One of the reasons often overlooked with regard to weight, bikes used to be weighed dry and now it's almost universally accepted that wet weights be given. So, all (published) weights have gone up accordingly.