So how are the chinese knock-off scoots?

One of my jobs is fixing chinese scooters...I've pretty much seen it all. Everything from pot metal use to non-fuel line used as fuel line to stripped treads on a brand new bike to incorrect bolts to parts not being the same on the same bike coming from the same factory to lines going where they are not suppose to, you name it and even things you wouldn't believe can occur does occur. I've worked on hundreds if not thousands of these chinese scoots so yeah that makes me more of an expert then most of the folks on here. I can't count how many blown motors I've seen and rebuild, carbs I'd had to fix/replace, electrical issues of every kind. I really can't name a specific thing that goes wrong with chinese scoots cause my experience shows that anything and everything can go wrong with them.

That $1k new scoot that folks think they got for so low will more then catch up to them in repair bills and headaches and down time.

The most mileage that I have ever seen on one is 26k miles which is most certainly not the norm. The guy was an older fellow and he rode the thing very conservatively...in the bike lane conservative so that was how he got so many miles on the thing. But boy when I had to do work on that bike everything was literally about to fall apart. But for the most parts chinese scoots have a shelf life of up to 5k miles before the repairs cost more then the value of the bike. It is actually very rare that a bike will go 1k miles without having some type of issue, needing some type of work.

Your posts are worthless unless you provide make, model, and problem information.

I didn't say coming form Japan or Taiwan, I said Japanese or Taiwanese companies. I bought a honda product and that is the difference. My point is don't get something from a chinese company coming out of china.

What you are saying is like saying that the honda cars coming out of the southern states is not made by honda but instead made by GM...don't be mistaken it is every bit a honda. Maybe you don't understand mfg. Here is an example: when I used to work for Intel in their FAB, they had factories all over the world including undeveloped countries. How they make chips is the same in very location, the processes/procedures/specifications were identical. So it did not matter if your intel chip was from their headquarters in Santa Clara or Isreal or any location it was the same. This is how Honda does things too their mfg plants world wide does things identically to each other, to the standards of Honda specifications.

way too much to list

Are you aware that there isn't that many chinese manufacturers of scooters? You can easily find a half dozen "brands" coming from one manufacturer. The best example of this is the Fly ilbello and it's various versions...just about every American "brand" chinese scooter company has this very same bike from the same manufacturer, they are just badged/"branded" differently here in the US. This is cause the US brands aren't manufacturers only importers. These importers (independent of each other) go to this manufacturer and orders a hundred in X color with Y options and put on their badge/"brand" and brings it over here.

You see the problem is not like normal vehicle problems where a specific vehicle let say toyota prius, with the gas pedal getting stuck from the floor mats, has a specific problem and can be easily address. The problem with chinese scoots is that it is completely unpredictable as to what each individual bike has issues with...like a box of chocolate you never know what you're gonna get. So let me repeat there is no specific issues with any specific model it really is a roll of the dice. Because if there were a specific issue with a specific model this implies that there is some underlying issue like design flaw or manufacturing flaw. In the case of chinese scoots the flaws mainly has to do with the whole manufacturing process, there is no consistency/repeat-ability anywhere so problems will arise from any thing.

There is some truth to this, but this is only true on the low end crappy cheap chinese scoots. But I think that there are some good bikes coming from china, like lifans and the high end companies.


Oh, and hugemoth, do you have any info on Harley building their bikes in china at any point? I have heard about this, but I don't know where. This is the only thing that CANNOT be built in china! Harley motorcycles are the American legend, they are one of few motorcycles being built in America, actually one of very few major American companies other than Ford. Point is, DaBinChe, sure quality may be the same, but it won't be a true Harley. This is to your other post, saying Hondas built in America are still Hondas. This is true. But it is going to be different with Harleys, I mean that is one of the reasons we Harley riders pay $20,000 for a cruiser when a Honda VTX 1800 is like $12,000.

Yes, the Honda doesn't feel quite the same, but this is a factor. I mean what happened to that good old Milwaukee steel? They have been made here for over 107 years, and know they are going to change that?

It is already uncool that my $500 Harley jacket is made there!:huh. But I do have understanding in why this is a possibility, sales. They will reduce costs BIG TIME. But they don't even realize what they are going to start! Oh boy, all those bikers who stay true to good old American Harleys and make fun of rice burners! They are going to loose so many sales it might put the 107+ year old company to an end!

But this is unlikely, hopefully they will come to their senses!

My Zinda wasn't too bad. I paid $400 for it in June, and it was less than a year old. It did the job...





Sometimes it didn't do the job...



Yep, "new" crank, new piston and barrel, not sure if they swapped the head too... all for $100.

It's probably worth replacing the wheel bearings if you have one.... I couldn't get over 85kph Vmax with this bearing



They chew out the cush rubbers a bit too...



And they aren't very good for carrying gear when you have to loan half your occy straps to someone else



They aren't bad off the beaten track....



But they get you there....



But best of all.... having mine made me go and buy a KTM 950 se when I got home....

^ holy cow :eek1

i don't think your experience and mechanical expertise can be doubted, nor your observations about cheap parts, cheap metal, and cheap hardware. thats why the scooters are cheap. poor build quality, fit and finish, you name it

but some people are cheap. or just want a scooter for a year, or do in fact want a mechanical project. many see scooters as disposable items, things to buy and use and throwaway. others ride one or two hundred miles a month. and so they get the cheapest scoots around. cheap plastics, cheap parts? they don't care

the original poster in this thread has a friend who wants a BIG 250cc. even after all the other recommendations for used scooters, smaller brand name bikes at close to the same price, and warnings against.....his friend is still considering a chinese 250cc. some people in this thread (and at scootdawg) have 250cc scooters and have over 12,000 trouble free miles on them over two years. they paid $1700 or so for them. so even if they will have more problems then the bike is worth someday soon....they figure "hey, time for a new scooter!"

some value quality more then others. some want long lasting durability and a high mileage, low maintenance machine. yet others will just say "$5000? no thanks. i paid $1600 and i'll do it again"

and its hard to tell them don't do it if a BIG 250cc is what they want or need, but can't afford otherwise or are too cheap (frugal) except to buy a chinese scoot

plus don't forget, not everyone has a dealer nearby who has brand name scoots. and some people live in rural areas where private party used selections are low, or nothing at all. i live in an area where i can go get a low mileage 2005 Piaggio BV 200 for $2000 tomorrow, or a lower mileage 2006 Kymco People 250 for under $1500. and their is more to choose from. but for many that is not the case. so a new scooter delivered to their door is an attractive offer. especially if they are mechanically inclined

I remember Zongshen is the company that will be making HD as well as Piaggio (vespa) but don't know the details. The article implied that the HDs will be for the Asian market, at least at first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongshen
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/harley_davidson_chinese_market/index.html

well, Zongshen certainly know how to build a lot of scoots. i would think manufacturing for HD and Piaggio would improve the quality of Znen scooters, too. if the company wants it to

how this would happen, idk? i doubt the same quality control that goes into a Piaggio model would be used for the average Znen, but if they can start using some upgraded parts and components sourced from or copied from these bigger players, who knows?

Thanks. I just hope they keep those Harleys in the chinese market. I won't buy a new Harley if they start building them there, only keep my current and buy used. It is ok with me for other bikes like Honda, but as I said, Harley just won't be the same.

Harley is probably suffering in America due to the economy and such, but that is no excuse to go BUILD bikes in china. There is a big difference between giving Harleys to the chinese market for chinese people to ride, that is great! So they can enjoy Harleys and it will help their profit.

But we all know how many problems this is going to cause with the die hard Harley fans like me. I am not just for Harleys, but I love riding Harleys. I love that big powerful twin feel, that rumble with loud pipes, and that powerful torquey motor that just keeps rumbling forever. That chrome idle and American machine make these things a dream to ride! Just like all the BMW guys love their beamers, I love Harleys.

Don't get me wrong, I also LOVE all other bikes. If it its got 2 wheels and a motor, I'll love it! I'll ride a Honda, Beamer, Kawasaki, Ducati, etc. But Harleys are a part of my life. I love to tour on them.

If Harley really wants to make some more money, they need to get into the SMALL DISPLACEMENT motorcycle industry. Yes, exactly. They need to make a cool 250 cc V twin. Think about it. If a beginner who has never ridden 2 wheels wants a bike, what are the chances he or she will feel confident on a 1600 cc 850 pound monster bike? They will obviously go buy a Honda Rebel or Ninja 250. They should make a 50 cc bike with a real V twin as well.

And for any Harley riders, how cool would a new XR 1200 WITH a VROD ENGINE be?

But we all know what the hard core Harley riders are going to say when their bikes can be considered not only rice burners, but discount ride burners!:eek1

Harley has imported and sold bikes under the HD brand before, Aermacchi of Italy. I don't see why it would be a big deal for them to import smaller bikes from China and put their name on them to make a few extra bucks. There are some real nice Chinese V twin engines based on the Yamaha design built by Lifan in a 250cc and 400 cc size. Lifan already imports their V twin 250 motorcycle and has plans to import the 400.

http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/250-b.html
http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan4/400.html

BTW I always like the Aermacchi 250 with the horizontal engine. Kind of like a big Honda 90.

Wait, they are just planing on importing them under their name? But not ALL of their bikes will be made in china? That would be great! If they import like some 250 twins and such, that would be a great idea!

Your right, that is no big deal, actually maybe good for some extra cash for them. This is ok with me as long as I can still buy an American made Harley and every bike they make is not in china.

I don't care where H-D builds their bikes. I'm not likely to buy one anyway.

Wow, Harley BETTER NOT build their bikes in china! That would be stupid. I would never buy one from china. I mean why? I can go buy a Honda made in Japan or China for cheaper. It would be no different at that point.

And my buddy decided to ditch the chinese scoots. He said he doesn't want a money pit. He decided to go for a Japanese bike or possibly a Taiwanese bike.

But know he is unsure wether or not he wants a scoot. He said they are cool, but a used small 250 cc street bike would probably cost less. I agree with him on that. Why do scooters cost so much? I mean even look on craigslist. He saw a Ninja 250 for like $1600, and he is going to look at it. Those go 100+ MPH, get better gas milage, and are cheaper than a scooter. The only plus on a scooter is the auto CVT and under seat storage, but its all downhill from there.

They are slower than geared bikes. They also require much more frequent oil changes. The small wheels are not a plus either at highway speeds. They also don't seem to get the best gas milage compared to geared bikes. For example, a met or Ruckus get like 100 MPG average, right? But a Honda Cub, or Honda trail get like 150-180 MPG as far as I hear. This is due to the fact that CVTs are always running the engine at somewhat high RPMs. Now this is nice for performance and getting up and going, but if you are just driving around or commuting, it is nice to be able to keep the tach down a bit to get better gas milage.

Now this is an overall general opinion. It is not fact. I am just starting to see this. Now don't get me wrong, I love scooters and actually commute on a 2007 Honda Reflex 250, but these are just some of the things I don't like. I luckily have the cash to afford any reasonably priced scooter or motorcycle, and that is why I got the reflex. It is smooth, quiet, has under seat storage which I love, and I don't mind the automatic in tons of traffic.

BUT I average mid 60s as far as gas milage. This is ok, but I have another friend who commutes on a Honda Rebel 250, and he gets 75 MPG or more according to his Iphone. This it a tad better, and that is with mostly 75 -80 MPH highway riding. My 60-65 MPG on my flex are mostly highway at the same speed as well.

But I think it depends on what you are looking for. But in this case, we top out at the same speed. Both around 80 MPH. I don't have to worry about shifting, I can store way more, the Reflex looks pretty cool, and it is a lot of fun to hop on and go.

I have had no issues mechanically either. But he is still considering a scooter. He does want to try something different. He thinks either a Ninja 250 or a Honda Helix are what he is looking for. He does see a nice Helix for around $1000! So I guess he will just keep researching bikes for now.

I would never purchase another Chinese scoot. Wpendthe extra cash and get a good quality used scoot. Kymco, Sym, Piaggio, Aprilia, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha.

Buying a chinese scooter online is like buying a car online that sort of looks like a Camry for $4500, and when it arrives you have to put on the doors, trunk, and wheels and the welds are already rusting. You would have one guy on the internet posting over and over what a rip off Toyota is because this car is so much cheaper, you would have another guy who could rebuild a Nascar engine in his sleep telling you that they are a good deal and only require a bit of mechanical knowledge, and the other 98% of the people would get screwed.
So many times when we replace rear tires on these chinese scooters, and usually because the owner has already plugged it four times and it won't hold air anymore,(very few of them last long enough to need tires), the braking material separates from the rear shoes when you take the rear wheel off. That is one reason Hondas cost more. If their brake shoes disintegrated, they'd get sued.

Great link. I'm going to use it. this is my favorite line in the whole story- "DesMoinesRegister.com - Customers complain about getting what they paid for"

the problem with google now is that it is heavily weighted towards merchants in the links it returns for searches and it's hard to find good articles like this group in one place.

IMO, it is less likely that you would hear from people who are satisfied with their purchases. Complaints are likely to out number the praises when it comes to vehicles.

And mechanics don't see the ones that are being ridden every day without problems.

From an economic standpoint, a dealer can't afford to stand behind these products. that is why they either become absolute dicks, and stamp every piece of paper that leaves the place with "no returns, no exchanges, no refunds,' or get out of the bottom feeder scooter business. To sell a product you can stand behind means being willing to give up the low end of the business and see people walk out your door and buy somewhere else. And the worst part is that the bottom feeder who didn't buy from you goes back to the dick he bought it from as soon as he starts having problems, doesn't like the level of customer service he got from said dick, and brings it to you so you can tell him how to fix it for free.
Our old shop was about six miles from a place that sells the Gators and Peace of sports and Tao Taos, and we had one guy who decided to prove what a ripoff our stuff was because we don't operate like a flea market and jump up and down and cut our price in half when someone flashes a roll of twenties. He left our shop and went to the other shop and bought a Gator brand scooter, and was on his way back to show us that we were trying to rip him off for $400 for "the exact same mopad", (a Baccio Speedy with at the time a 12 month, 4000 mile parts and labor factory warranty) because they look similar and were both red. The main bearings on the crank failed with 9 miles on the bike and he paid us $25 to take him and the bike back to the dealership, where his 30 day, 300 mile warranty covered the cost of parts, but they charged him about what it costs for an engine and labor to put a new one in. Between the new bike and the "warranty" repairs, he could have bought our Baccio.
I need to compile a list of common repairs on Chinese scooters, so the "Mechanically inclined" can see what they are in for. Far too many of the people who post great things on various forums are in the Chinese scooter business in one manner or another, and only tell the truth when they turn on one another.