Dual Sport Environmentalist

And motorcyclist just wanting to go for a ride could have stayed in the city or on the streets - but we go out there on two wheels for very similar reasons

Noise trumps all that Bullshit.

The thing that pisses people off the most about motorcycles is one thing: noise.

It's one thing to tolerate it on a highway, but out in the boonies, hearing a dirtbike roosting up the fire road a mile or two over just really pisses people off.

They're out there to enjoy the quiet and get away from it all, then some fucking motorcycle has to go blaring by with its fart can exhaust.

I'm an avid motorcyclist. The only thing that pisses me off more than an uncorked Harley is an uncorked dirtbike. Well, chainsaws are right up there...

But us rednecks that live in TwistyRoad Hollow like loud exhaust

Actually, when talking carbon footprints, noise isn't even in the equation. Noise doesn't leave a mark or something to clean up.
The amount of UN-recyclable trash a person generates in his/her lifetime, and all the energy put into making, shipping and the land used to hold all that trash(landfill), is probably THE biggest contributor to a persons Carbon footprint.



http://makewealthhistory.org/2008/04/08/carbon-footprints-what-makes-the-biggest-difference/

I do agree with you on the noise being a problem. There's no reason for it, except, "Hey, look at me!" There was talk earlier this year of the National Forest closing one trail(in a twenty+ trail system) because of the noise bleeding over into the private land nearby.

Uh...

After all it was "carbon footprint" that was the crux of the article. Not noise.
If you want to talk about noisy bikes start another thread.

I promised myself I wasn't going to step into this one and then I read your post. Exactly.

People don't think of all the erosion that the human foot causes. Just look at the trails of old in the woods where only people and animals walked on them.

Thank you.

Wow, really? A foot does as much damage as a knobby?

Wow, this thread is all over the place and some good points.
I'd like to try a different take on the OP's commentary. Let's do a little thought experiment and fast forward 30 years. One scenario is that petroleum could be expensive, either for supply or for environmental repair taxes (road maint. CO2, reclamation, etc).

If gas is $14 per gallon or is rationed, there is a lot of fun that could be had for a DS that gets 75 mpg (125 four strokes for example). It might be time to think ahead about costs and carbon footprint and I think there really is a place for smaller, but fun, bikes in that equation.

As others have said:

The social license to operate may actually become the limiting factor due to the noise in the back country aspect. That won't be the tool that gets used to restrict riding, but I do believe that is one of the primary features that drives those who would oppose DS riders.

Lee
(also a conservationist and wetland scientist!)

compacting the soil can do more damage in some places, its relative to the situation, yes, sometimes a foot trail is more impacting than an ATV trail. In general, equestrian trails are the most impacting. Trail improvements can make a big difference on impacts

In my town, it seems that wheeled vehicles are hated the most, mountain bikes, as well as dirtbikes and ATVs, certainly not the noise as snowmobiling, & hunting are allowed on our conservation lands.

As many deer that I see feeding in the medians of busy highways I can't believe that noise is an issue for wildlife, it's something they adapt too. Theres no reason our park lands can't be multi-use

OP here: I didn't write the article, just posted here for discussion. BTW - it's fine with me to discuss carbon footprint, erosion, sound issues whatever. I find it all interesting.

In 30 years they will probably have cages that get over 70 mpg. The VW TDI can get an average of 48mpg right now...more than most bikes, right now.
Another thing to factor in is tires. With my bike it will take 20 pair to get the same 60,000 miles with four tires on my cage.
When gas is, or becomes rationed you can bet money most folks wont be able to or wont be allowed to, go on too many joy rides. That will be the furthest thing from their minds.

Theres no reason our park lands can't be multi-use

Comparing foot traffic to a motorcycle or ATV is a pretty big stretch.

I've never seen a hiker roost.
I can't ever see a foot trail torn up as much as a bike or ATV trail. I've hiked many foot trails and hiked foot trails that bikes and atv's poached. There is significant damage from the machines.

Ummm, yes there is...

That's why...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_park


For those who wish to debate loud pipes...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682641

If we want to sequester carbon one of the best things we could do would be to clear cut all the old growth forest and use the wood in some type of permanent structures. Replace the old trees with fast growing species that pull a bunch of CO2 out of the atmosphere. This solution rarely gets discussed because it sucks. All outdoors enthusiasts would ideally be united in the goal of preserving habitat and limiting development--instead we fight each other. If we want to take the thread way off target we could discuss the morality of using fossil fuels for recreation. Is it ok to use the most precious commodity we have just for fun? All of our food and the distribution of food depends on a finite resource. Are we fools? Future generations may judge us harshly, but on a perfect day in the mountains riding this is the last thing on my mind.

What "old growth forests"? We cut them all down back at the turn of the twentieth century.
Cutting down all the trees and replacing them with fast growing trees? The timber industry already does this...for their profit.
Personally, I've never heard of this solution.
Your talking solely about air pollution. Scrubbers on all factory smoke stacks would be a good start for that.
What we are talking about, and I think the person who wrote that blog is mistaken with is...

The blog is focusing on direct sources and not taking in the whole picture, hence my original comments towards the blogs author.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint

Alright, I've got a beer calling me.

Happy new year all you FF's!

if you roost a trail close to a wetland sure, it has more impact, when its further away and there is minimal chance of sediments reaching wetlands and streams, whats the big deal ? a little torn up soil doesn't necessarily hurt anything

on the other hand, the compacted foot trail won't let rainwater seep in and increases the rate of runoff causing more erosion downslope and more untreated stormwater and sediments reaching the wetlands

fast growing small trees do not grow as much as and old tree

old growth giant sequoia grows more in volume than any other tree on earth

a ½" ring on a white pine that was 10 feet tall one tear and 15 feet tall the next puts on a few pounds off wood in growth, the giant sequoia can put on a ring only 1/16" thick and puts on several tons of wood in growth, that "fast growing"pine can grow for 200 years and still will never catch up with the growth on a giant sequoia, in fact the disparity will become even greater, the big tree has more mass, more leaves/needles, more co2 exchange whenever you campare any older larger tree to a smaller younger tree

a 1' tall seedling can grow 300% and grow to be 4 feet tall in a year or the 3500 year old 2100 ton sequoia might only grow 0.1%, it still puts on 2 tons more biomass than the "fast growing" seedling

instead of quoting wiki in a generic national parks around the globe statement, maybe ya should go to the .gov website and get the real info instead of something some wannabe posted on wiki

there are may multi use programs in place, at national parks, and even more in national forests
http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/

http://www.nps.gov/index.htm

If these so called enviro-conservationists actually went out in the woods with us, they would learn that we actually do much more to protect the planet than they ever will. If these weak whiney-babies would get a dirt bike and ride with us, they would have a ton of fun, learn that we clean up campgrounds, pick up trash, control erosion, build environmentally safe and sustainable trails, and do it more efficiently with motorcycles than they ever could on foot or on a mtn bike.

By the way, I AM QUALIFIED TO JUDGE ON THIS ISSUE because I hike, mtn bike, and conserve while doing it all! I can get much more done to pick up trash, clean up a campground, repair erosion, mingle with wildlife, while getting out there on a motorcycle than they will ever hope to accomplish on foot or on a bicycle!

How do they get their lazy butts outside in nature to experience it? In a big, heavy, polluting, inefficient automobile which uses far more fossil fuel and pollutes far more than my little motorcycle. I can ride my bike to a trail system while getting great mileage and polluting far less than even a hybrid car. Once I get there on my bike, I can move around and find what needs to be done and do it! These idiots cry about our behavior while they sit in their air conditioned/heated office and accomplish nothing more than making our life miserable.

Hell, we off road riders are actually kicking these whiney enviros out of the way so WE can get some environmental sustainment done! We are making the natural world a better place IN SPITE OF THESE FOOLS!

In 20 years we will likely be all riding OR machines with electric powerplants. The greenies will still hate us because they can hear our shock absorbers clunk, our chains rattle or smell the heat from our electric motor as we pass by:eek1. Their hate is just hate! I trust them to evolve until we are all extinct. They like nothing that we do including shorter /modified tire knobs, quieter engines/ mufflers, tread lightly and pack -in and pack-out campaigns. They hate that we have fun and can cover so much ground and see what they see in a day too. This will not change no matter what!

Well stated. Good on you for your stewardship. You just described my left wing hippie cousin to a T. He and his ilk want to save the planet by writing letters and marching on Washington. They don't recreate, hike, volunteer, or do jack shit to make a real difference in the woods. Why? Because they are too busy spreading propaganda and protesting. Now he has become what he reviled against for so many years, a two time parent (unmarried of course), a multi property landlord, a (gasp) capitalist.:loll