Musings on the Whooo-sa-berg FE570

How would the lack of a catalytic converter effect the operation of the O2 sensor? If there were a converter it would be down stream of the O2 sensor anyway.

That may change next year, or in coming years as bike regs change, or they change the bike to get it licensed in Calif.

It is kind of a silly game such regs - for the USA anyway. The first thing most people do on their bikes is replace the stock exhaust for something louder. And of course, there is little to no enforcement like in Europe - not that I want there to be any - bikes here have little impact on the environment because they make up maybe 1% of the number of miles on the road of all vehicles - if that.

Hell, my neighbor gets a new exhaust for his Panhead every year. He just finally replaced the carb on it after I had been telling him for three years the stock carb was shot and no amount of adjusting was going to make the bike run right. It seems for many Harley riders it is all about looks and sound, and little about performance or ride. But that is another topic altogether.

I think it is more about how the 02 sensor and fuel settings would affect the cat than the other way around. Running too rich or too lean, or with the wrong timing, can burn out a cat real quick and make it useless - or worse, clog it up. Also, it is needed to adjust the fuel and exhaust temp to get the cat up to temp quickly when the engine is cold.

Seems odd that they wouldn't use the 02 sensor for ECU correction. I'm calling on that statement, unless we can get some documentation to back up the claim. Why have fuel injection in that case?

Obviously its possible to build a map using TPS and MAP but the O2 sensor is nice.

Are you sure you don't mean "get the O2 sensor up to temp quickly when the engine is cold" as O2 sensors need to be up to 600 degrees to properly sense O2 in the exaust.
But i'm thinkin given the sensors proximity to the head and how hot those exausts get 600 deg is no problem.
It also just doesn't make sense to me to have all that stuff and not use it, threre is no drawback to use that sensor to run the EFI.

You guys got me all fucked up now.

Cats need to be hot too (not too hot though) in order to start working. I think the sensors often have heaters in them?

From what I have read, and from what I have been told by my dealer, the USA units do not use the sensor and it can be removed. Indeed, I think the 2010 units don't have the sensor - or maybe it is just the FX450 that doesn't have it.

They're whole claim to fame was being "closed loop fuel injection" Which has much greater control over the combustion process than Map controlled EFI. Neither needs a converter to work properly,,I do agree that a Cat needs to be hot to work properly but thats a moot point in this case.

Some automotive aplications use heated O2 sensors due to their location and the desire for rapid transition into closed loop operation.
They can be identified by three wires rather than two for the un heated sensors.

I'll have to look into this deeper,,fuckin guys got me worried now.

I agree. I am just repeating what I have been told (that the USA models neither need nor use the sensor) and speculating on why it might be so. Not that sensor needs the cat, but that typically a cat benefits from such sensors, both in function and longevity. Since the cat does not exist on the USA models, and I am told the sensor is not needed or used, I can speculate that in this application its benefit and use is for the cat.

This in turn may affect whether the EFI/ECU can or does respond in some way to more open exhaust system.

Notice the reference to 'derestricted' in the owner's manual:

O-2 sensors are only used in closed loop. Closed loop vehichles are usually set to 14.7:1(unless it's a KTM 990 ) you know, that perfect stoich thing that burns all the fuel. This is were good mpg comes from. At some point the ECU switches to open loop. This is a pre-set map. The ECU has correction factors to adjust that map. Those being the inputs from the Intake Air sensor in our(ya, I got me a Berg ) airboxes and manifold pressure. Might be others but I haven't dug in to this scoot yet. Those correction factors can compensate the map a good deal but not perfect. There are very expensive FI systems like Motec that use a wide-band sensor for all throttle positions. Production O-2 sensors are narrow band and cannot be used in as far a range as needed for all TP. My local dealer told me that on the 09 he could hook up the tool and watch the signal from the O-2. After the "comp" map was added, it did not read. Who knows. My '10 doesn't have one but will get a wide-band installed as soon as Cyborg signs off on his FI. I suspect the guy who had the big gain from just the muffler probably had the first "lean" map and not the "competition" map. I could see 3 or 4 hp from a muffler as bad as these are choked up. Another 3hp from the right A/F is possible if it isn't right to begin with. We will soon find out. I have a Yoshimura slip on to try.
I do like how quite my bike is stock. If it puts out more hp than my YZ I will leave it alone. At least for awhile.

Codemonkee, I forgot to add that I wouldn't pull a trailer if I had a BMer. Like you say, It's to low anyway. The E-36's had issues. If driven spiritedly the track bar would pull out of the frame mount. Use to work for a World Challenge BMW team so I got a little experience with that issue:eek1 .

Sorry to hijack but did you like the Motoz rear tire?

Haven't even rode the 990 in the dirt yet . Tires are still bundled up. Going to have to take it down to SoCal where they got good wet dirt right now and not this crappy snow ah, unless that's your thing. I saw the pics, I'm just not that tough.

Cool, let me know what you think!

[off-topic]
I have the Motoz Tractinator on my SE, and love them- Almost as good as the Teraflex, not nearly as dangerous on street. Highly recommended. Non DOT though... not an issue in WA, but check your state rules.
Now back to 'Who's a Berg' matters...
[/off-topic]


Anybody here has bought the FI management tool?
After looking at the manual for it I am very tempted... Looks like one can change with software the impact of different throttle body angles... like having even slower first quarter turn and then a nice power hit when I need it.

Any fact base opinions? Hearsay? Pure opinions? Wild guesses?

FYI, I'm a Motoz dealer I was the first guy to run them on the SE and now everyone appears to be on the band wagon, which is good

CodeMonkee, nice riding with you and Gabrielu today. Those FE570's are impressive and the auto-clutch makes the 570 an unstoppable tractor.
Hope you enjoyed the quick jaunt on my RXV550.

Yes, I had a lot of fun, too bad it had to end sooner than planned and on such a down note. I am debating on whether to go back out today as it is supposed to be even nicer. Right now it is overcast, but I bet it will clear off and be beautiful like yesterday and I need to take advantage of nice days while I can. Someday I will find a job and then I will be limited to weekends.

I would have liked to taken more pics and maybe vids while were riding, but we were too busy having fun. That's probably where a helmet cam would come in handy as it would always be recording. I'll have to get off my butt and get a job so I can justify the expense.

Yes, I enjoyed riding the Aprilia - it was surprising, actually I expected it to be more of a fire breather, but then I took it pretty easy and didn't try to really wind it up. I went out and did some research and went to the Aprilia forum too. It seems they had some teething problems but they are getting them sorted out.

I need to keep the bike in mind as a possible replacement for my Ducati, but first I need to try one on the street with good SM tires/wheels. I don't know about the wind protection though, I just now thought of that - as a naked bike it might be very tiring to cruise along at 80+MPH without so much as a small windscreen.

Still, the appeal of a lightweight bike that could do 100+MPH and still not be a pig on the trails (like a GS or something like that) is something to think about. Then all that HP would be useful in the snow too.

I noticed there that IMS sells a 20L tank for it now - but the thread in the forum suddenly goes quiet on the subject. Is it because you can't hinge the tank up with the IMS?

I have that 20liter tank in my garage, just haven't installed it yet, and yes you lose the ability to hinge the fuel tank with just one bolt to get at the air filter. I think the AF1 thread got quiet because those that wanted one, got one and many are still afraid of the bikes old history to use them for longer rides. Too bad, they are missing out.

I was running the 12liter yesterday. My RXV was a late '06 that had some teething problems (since sorted out) but from '08 on they have worked most of the issues out of it. I don't hear of any problems with the '08, '09 etc RXV & SXV's. Aprilia RXV's got quite a bit more headlines this year getting on the Dakar 2010 podium!

The SXV550 is the 'street' SM version with shorter suspension, and a harder hitting powerband. My RXV550 has the latest offroad powerband and nobody riding it yesterday got anywhere near where the power really hits at a 5K to 10K, that's usually too much for anything but open desert or sand/snow.

I need to add one of those FE570's to the stable too...amazing trail bike.

Yeah, I like it. It is nice to know that I am not completely off track in how I set it up - that other people like it. I think the main thing is the combination of the handling, the Rekluse and the way it puts power to the ground.

I did like Gabrielu's ergos - something worth exploring, but first I have a list of things I want to get /do. Top of the list is the suspension, then the rest will just be items to make it more rounded and convenient for backcountry exploration.

sorry I didn't get a chance to hook up with you guys. I'm coming off hip surgery (arthroscopic) but am pain free and feeling well enough to ride sometime soon.

Steve

Seems like a lot of people getting injured and not being able to ride. Come on guys, get your priorities straight.