Used Subarus and the head gasket thing...

NPR had a segment on Subaru and its' growing market share this morning.

They lay part of the blame on Portlandia.



Hey John

First off the awd system is totally different in the manual versus automatics in the subarus. The manuals still have the old(er) system but the automatics are electronic, same as crv or rav4. My manual '10/'11 outbacks still had all the electronic nanny crap that ruined snow driving, even when switched "off" which didn't totally disable the abs/stability/traction control. The interiors were junk and the 2.5 engine was not up to the task as far as I'm concerned. If you wanted to pass on the highway is was a double downshift to fourth gear, mash the gas to the floor and wait. I was in loaners for months while mine were getting warranty work and the cvt auto did better because it would wind the living piss out of it and get the passing power that was hard to find in the manual. Add in mid-20's for gas mileage and I gave up on them.

Haters gona hate, but.

Not exactly true. The low-end manual cars like yours have the same old viscous coupling they've had for years.

The low-end [4 speed] automatics are an 80/20 or 90/10 split (ie, drive the front wheels until slip is detected) without any locking.

Cars with the six cylinder or turbo have a five speed automatic Subarus VTD drive system. This is a significantly more sophisticated system that puts more than half the power to the rear wheels until slip is detected. Almost all of the VTD cars also have VDC - essentially four wheel electronic traction control that uses the ABS system to limit slip and help keep the thing pointed in the right direction.

I don't have a 2010 manual OBW wagon handy, but on all previous Subarus equipped with VDC, there was a button to disable it, and it was "off." On my 09 WRX it's a button on the lower left part of the dash, unlabeled other than the graphic. I usually only shut it off for autocross.

The STI has yet another drive system, with mechanical front and rear limited slip differentials and a "DCCD" - Driver Controlled Center Differential, which can vary the amount of power directed to the front and rear wheels from 90/10 to 10/90. This hardware is the primary reason the STI weighs more than the WRX.

AWD systems are all "automatic" but the Subaru systems are not like the She-RV or RAV4 systems, other than being relatively light duty AWD systems without things like locking or limited slip differentials. For one thing, the 2012+ CR-V has a more capable system than previously. RAV4 has had three different systems, some with a viscous coupling center differential, some with a clutch type center differential (like the low-end Subaru manual system) and some of each model with mechanical rear LSD. The higher-end Acura SH-AWD system does have a mechanical center differential.

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/
etc.

The Loyale wagons were pretty awesome. Simple and better in the snow than the newer ones (at least I recall that)

Although my Parents had a 1992 Auto Trans one that blew up. Subaru replaced the transmission without charge.

It was the car I learned to drive in.

To imply that Subarus are anything but light-duty awd is not accurate. There is nothing truly unique about their "symmetrical awd" beyond marketing material and they use electronic center differentials just like the competition. Some of the higher end models use limited slip differentials but most rely on the electronic traction control, also just like the competition. Mine, with the vtd/traction/stability button off, still interfered when driving aggresively in snow no matter what the manual says. They are good in the snow but so are the competitors these days.

SourKraut
You bring up a point I've wanted to know.
I have seen the videos posted about Subaru's climbing up a ramp with rollers where other vehicles could not.
The video looks impressive.
Is it true Honda, Toyota, Ford, etc. AWD systems could not move up a slope with only 1 wheel having traction????

I'd like to test that on a bunch of cars just for fun. The videos may or may not be legit. But sure, some vehicles will move up it just fine with the electronic traction control that they all have now. Brakes are applied automatically on the wheels without traction. Same as the subaru.

I suppose others could chime in and say that no vehicle in the world, except a subaru, can do that.

My '84 Subaru Brumby (Brat) now has 124,000 km on the clock. What should I be looking for regarding the head gasket problem?

It would be interesting to see what % of subie
owners own Apple computers compared to say Honda crv

You said you had a 2.5 manual. You did not have VTD: you had the most basic Subaru AWD system with the clutch pack center differential, which is not "electronic." Like the cute-ute class vehicles you mentioned, it is a light duty system with open differentials if you purchased the 2.5i, the cheapest model.

In other words, you are 100% correct in having the least expensive and least capable Subaru system of the several they offer. And have moved on. Good luck.

Neither of mine were the base model and had all of the electronics as well as an alleged "defeat" button to override those systems. It is a shame that Subaru hides the fact that they sell so many different awd systems. Rather than call out the fact that most models don't have true limited slip differentials they just removed that information from the website and catalog, at least when I was buying. They now just use "virtual" limited slip like all the competition with traction control applying brakes to spinning wheels and killing forward momentum when you need it most.

After my subaru experience I gave up on awd as too much of a comprimise and use our 4wd truck with a V8 that only gets about 6 mpg worse than the subaru with a 4cyl did. I'd still have mine if they weren't lemons with numerous quality/build issues.

Yup,. you've beaten that point into all of us.

What model, exactly, did you have?

2010 Outback 2.5i Premium, manual transmission (bought back by soa and then sold to an unsuspecting buyer)

2011 Outback 2.5i Premium, manual transmission (traded away)

Hey Garandman

What can you tell me about the traction control and stability control in my BRZ?

It has a VSC sport button: By default , normal VSC is working, and the traction control is also on. If i press the VSC button, it goes into sport mode, and a light comes in in the dash that shows the traction control is off. But it is not fully off, and if I press it seems like I can shut off the traction control all the way, and a light comes in that says TRAC off.

Yesterday i took it out on some windy roads I know really well, put it in VSC sport mode, and I could get the car to do slight drifts around corners, even a tiny bit of oversteer, as compared to having it in VSC normal mode. Not getting too crazy yet, it only has five hundred miles on it

hard to believe the numbers are that low

I think my perception of their numbers is occluded by the fact that I live in Boulder and my parents live in Northampton MA, cities which are known as being extremely liberal and Subarus seem to be favored by the Liberals (and if there were no snow they'd probably all be in Prius'). Boulder County has 2 Subaru Dealerships and a 3rd Independent Used Dealership that deals strictly in Subaru. And those 3 Dealerships are BUSY! Mitsubishi & Suzuki (the other 2 small Japanese marks) have ZERO dealers! and they both make AWD cars as well. I still think Subaru has to be doing something right, despite the vocal minority claiming they're the worst car since their 1970s Pinto.

You don't even need much statistical data to enforce the fact there's a lot of Subarus and Jeeps on the road, when your local accident reports read like this:

I have a 2009 Impreza Outback Sport stick. It now has about 95K miles and other than filters,oil, plugs and belts (which were just changed) it has not had one issue.

I Googled up this article: http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/

I found the battery/electrical system/head gasket comment in the article very interesting. The old buck sales guy (he was retiring the week I bought the car after a career of Subaru sales) specifically told me to not run all the electrical equipment and the fog lights as it overstressed the electrical system. Seemed odd at the time but, based on the above article, perhaps there was more buried in his comment.

I used to run CRVs, to the tune of about 400K miles combined on two. Although they liked to dance when faced with hydroplaning the awd worked very well. I was always confident in the traction with them. With the Subaru I’ve just never felt as confident in the traction. I even run Nitto ice tires now. Although it doesn’t seem to suffer the wondering that the CRV did with the hydroplaning the Subaru just seems to break loose more so than what the CRV did.

Only comment I ever heard bad about the Rav4 was from an autobody shop. Seems that the rear mounted tire really causes an inordinate amount of damage if pushed into the back of the car.

For me, I'm really only concerned about an external coolant leak as the cats and dog like to hang out in the garage. Has anyone here actually had an external coolant leak on a more recent year Subaru?

It depends on where you live. I live in Minnesota and spend a lot of time in N. Wisconsin as well. Subarus are everywhere around here. In the Twin Cities, I think there are 5 or 6 dealers, plus one in Duluth, and one in St. Cloud.

I'm not sure, but I thought I remember hearing that there were some fairly large Southern cities that had no Subaru dealer at all. Basically, if you live in or near an area that traditionally gets a lot of snow, you'll see them.

As for Suzuki and Mitsubishi. The former is pulling out of the US market, and the latter better do something quick or they'll have to as well. Subaru has a niche market, and are very successful in it. Mitsubishi doesn't.

Oh, and if I could find one that hadn't been turned entirely to Iron Oxide, I'd be all over one of these.

I have to say that I am quite happy with my 2011 3.6 Limited OB and the average mileage over the last 4000 miles has been 26 MPG. That is city/highway driving and towing my boat. I have to agree on the interior parts being somewhat on the cheap side compared to my mom's 2007 Outback, but all in all the car does what I want from it. The 3.6 actually tows my boat better than the gas-guzzler Chevy Avalanche it replaced. Never any wheelspin on the crappy boat ramps we have down here.

Thought I would share this.

My 2002 has had a big hesitation/stuttering problem for a couple years. No mechanic could figure it out, took it to the go to Subaru guy locally, the dealer as well.

The independent Subaru guy spent about 12 hours diagnosing (he didn't charge me) but couldn't figure it out.

Fast forward to now, I decided to change plugs and wires as a last resort.

Problem solved.:huh