So how are the chinese knock-off scoots?

Polls seems somewhat biased to me. It would be interesting to know how many Kymco scooters have been sold vs similar Chinese scoot. If 10 times as many Chinese scoots have been sold over Kymco, it is likely that there is more issues.
Where does that pol take place? only in the US or worldwide?
I'd think many more scooters are sold wordlwide than within the US.
Not many places in the world that scooters can or have the need to travels at 60 mph.

Chinese motorcycle and scooter production figures for 2010 are estimated at 11,954,400 with just over 3,000,000 exported. That is far more than any other country. Japanese motorcycle production for the same period is estimated at just under 500,000. So, there are a LOT of Chinese motorcycles out there. China's top motorcycle exporters are Loncin, Xiang, Lifan, Guangzhou Hao Jin, Zongshen, Jincheng.

True, but we can't forget that they are interested in the smaller motorcycle market far more than the Japanese. Honda doesn't really care for this, they care for selling big street bikes now, and now they are doing some weird stuff like producing the Fury.

I bet if Honda really wanted to sell a lot of bikes, they would bring back the Cub, but modernized, roadworthy and with a 50 cc-150 cc version, and sell it for a good affordable price like they used to . But retain the old Horizontal "50" type engine that they sold more than anything.

If you ask me, all the chinese companies are just FAR better marketers. They know what we want! And they know that we don't want to pay big for this. For example, THEY know how bad we want a cub, so heres what they do:

http://gokartsusa.com/honda50.aspx


It's a Lifan! Only $978 is very affordable, and Lifans are trusty engines. It has that same old Honda "50" like engine, but with modern CDI ignition and it's a good Lifan with 4 gears. When people see that same old Honda 50 like engine, they will remember their first Honda Trail or Mini trail when they were 12! But if the engine was really Honda, people would buy it so fast! Even though the Lifan is of comparable quality. I have a Honda CRF 50, and I can tell you that it has been more reliable than any of my other bikes! It sat for 2 years one time, and started on the very first kick, and ran great! It truly does start on the first kick every time!


So my point is, the chinese are outselling Honda not because they are better, but they know what we want and what prices are appropriate! Honda thinks that they can just bring some scooter thats popular in some other country here, jack the price up X2 or X3, and sell a million of them as they did with the SH. Wrong! This just shows that Honda doesn't truly care for the North American market at this point. They give all those cool little bikes to many other countries, but not us!

On another note, what was said about most countries not needing to exceed 60 MPH is also something to think about. The SH might do real good over there and be worth the money because it would not even be a consideration to get anything bigger. Yes, here in America if your bike can't do 60 MPH, it is considered a toy on the road, while in other countries it would do great as someone's main transportation and for trips. But this is only true in certain particular areas of these countries.

that model is what is known widely as the "VOG," which i believe is the first model name it was sold under. it's sort of based on the styling of the Suzuki Burgman

you can find many opinions and experiences in the "250cc and Up" forum at scootdawg

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc

i actually think the 250cc+ chinese scoots are good vaules if they work out, and many people certainly get what they pay for and more out of them. looks like user Cat0020 is a member of that forum, too

that scooter is overpriced bought from that seller you linked, though. same scoot from superior powersports

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Gas_Scooter_p/rk250sc-62.htm

they have a whole host of low priced 250cc's

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/category_s/55.htm

and this one here is the "latest" 250 - 260cc generic china scoot. which explains the higher price

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Gas_Scooter_p/sr250sc-titan.htm

same bike from a better seller, for less money

http://www.scooterdynasty.com/250ccssrtitan.aspx

if your friend was gonna pay $2500, or is willing to, better to get something like the big scoots on this page imho

http://www.scootersus.com/aeolusscooters.html

and, feeling daring? look at these "refurbished" scoots

http://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/38_95/products_id/14830

http://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/38_95/products_id/14520


i would just call and tell them to deliver the scoots for that price, and its a sale

When gas goes over $5/gallon, a 50cc scooter/moped that can hit 45 mph and gets over 100 mpg will sell like hotcakes. Here is the same Honda 50 clone for half price:

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/50cc_gas_scooter_p/rk50sc-114.htm

Max speed 21.7 mph? That would be a little too limiting for most people in the US.

Didn't notice that - sounds wrong for a 4 speed 50. Definitely too slow for anywhere I ride!

The other web site says max speed 45 which sounds more reasonable. If so that could be about the cheapest practical motorized transportation available.

I've noticed that web sites selling Chinese bikes are pretty accurate when they are copied from the original Chinese specs but often the retailers make up their own higher max speed specs. The factory spec top speed for my Lifan 200 is 65 mph which is accurate but some web sites say "75 mph with ease". Same with my Hensim 250 factory listing at 62 mph but some sites say 80 mph.

Yep, a 4 speed 50 should top a minimum of 40 MPH. I am sure that they screwed up with that, 21 MPH is too slow for a 1 speed 50, even those should do 25 MPH.

Yes, those sites get pretty optimistic scometimes. For example, check out this piece of crap pocket bike for $179. They are 47 cc 1 speed and they claim 47 MPH. No way!

http://www.minipocketrockets.com/cagllari-pocket-rocket/

Look down at the specs and it says 47+ MPH!

More like 30 MPH! Thats what everyone who has one knows.


Oh and shit! I love that little bike, espically since it runs a Lifan engine I know it will be decent, and at that price I would love a 4 speed 50! Drop a 140 cc Lifan in there for $300 and you have a great roadworthy transportation!

But Damn! They say it is not CARB approved, so I can't get it out here in Cali.. But maybe the other site for more will send it, who knows? But at that price I can buy a used Trail and drop a Lifan 140 in!

meh, SYM already did that with the Symba, taking a shot at a Honda Passport / Cub. they didn't sell crap. nice bike, too. but then again, SYM wouldn't know how to sell a fur coat in the Arctic, or water in Death Valley. SYM built most of the original Passport / Cub's, btw.

Flyscooters had their clone, too. gone now, of course. along with Flyscooters itself

Btcn I saw that too. What's worse is try going to the MA DOT with a MCO/MSO that says compliant in 49 states. Automatic rejection for a title.

Seems the Massholes over in Boston decided when the EPA came through and got strict with Federal emmision standards, to adopt the law of

"California Emmisions or Federal Standards, whichever is stricter"

So if it doesn't comply with California, don't even bother with it in MA.

Funny part is the same scooter with the "California compliant" is $500 more than the ones that aren't.

Willing to guaranty from a couple of these online companies that if you paid for one of the California compliant models, you might still get a MCO/MSO that says "Complies with Emmision Standards in 49 States"

most of you on here don't know what you are talking about and are basing your info on lack of info.

Simply put scooters coming out from China by chinese companies are crap, plain and simple. The only good ones coming out of china are made by Japanese and Taiwanese companies.

The good old saying you get what you pay for most certainly applies to scoots from china.

You might ask what the hell do I know? Well considering that I'm somewhat in the industry and not just the scooter industry but the chinese company made side of the industry I know a thing or two. Yes, I would be going against my best interest since I make money from China made scooters from chinese manufacturers. Knowing what I know I would not put a penny into one of these scoots. You wouldn't believe the things I've seen with chinese company made scoots!

Now on the other hand I have all the confidence in the world with bikes made in China being made by a Japanese or Taiwanese company. As a matter of fact I just recently bought a china made Honda Elite.

The Fly Scout has nothing on the SYM Symba. The Symba is better in every way. I know first had, search for my ride post on the symba to alaska. Having laid my hands on the Scout as well I wouldn't trust it to get me out of CA let alone go to AK and back.

calm down, man. i didn't compare the Scout to the Symba quality wise. and regarding your last post, i don't know who the "most of you" are you've implied are praising chinese scoots. if anything most posts in this thread have reflected your sentiments, if not as rigidly

but if you want to think you know better then most of us for whatever reason, fine with me

Wow! Finally a real expert on Chinese scooters. Please give us some background. Which brands have you actually tested and exactly what failed on them?

:dg Certainly when (not if) gas gets over $5 per gallon, they would sell a bunch, but would a 50-150cc haul a typical fat-ass American around? Back in the late 60s - early 70s Americans weren't nearly as heavy as we are today.

yeah i know, huh?



discussing chinese scooters is always a bit of a minefield, i'm afraid. i always recommend if the person can afford it look elsewhere or for something used, but if for whatever reason a person doesn't want to, i can only try to show them a way to a better seller with a better price, and maybe a chinese make where the chances of getting a better chinese scooter then another may lie

the thing about chinese scooters is, as much as i don't trust the quality, its hard to argue with owners who have 15k, 20k, and 25k miles on theirs, and say they have had little or no problems mechanically. is this the norm? probably not overall, but its out there. and for some, even if they do have problems, it was worth it to them because it comes back down to price. $1000 for a 150cc that went 15K miles so far? maybe it is cheap, and cheaply made. and well, maybe some people just don't care and want a cheap scooter. as i've read in some forums from chinese scoot owners: "so what? you bought one scooter for $4000 that will last three times as long as mine, but i'll just buy 3 scooters over time and still come out paying less then you"

that is the reasoning of many, and if they are riding along fine i really can't tell them how to spend their hard earned money and on what, or put down what they ride. and if they have 10,000 nearly trouble free miles on a china scoot, paid $800 for it, and are happy, happy, happy....even if it breaks tomorrow...i can see why

chinese scooters are a complete crap shoot imo. more knowledgeable scooter people understand and know this. they know what they are buying. an inexpensive gamble. if they lose, they lose. lesson learned. less knowledgeable buyers unfortunately don't know this, and when they lose it hurts. because they expected a good scooter and got trash, or unwittingly bought trash. but not ALL chinese scooters turn out to be complete trash. its just not true, so i can't tell anyone it is

buyer beware, sure. but buy and ride what you want, or can afford. maybe a hard lesson will be learned, or maybe it will turn out ok. it's easy to say to someone "they are all junk. buy Jap or Taiwanese or Italian." but its not my money, so who am i to say anything like that? if someone wants a chinese bike and are intent on getting one i can just point them to some which have better reputations them others, some good pdi advice, a list of parts to replace right off the bat, a decent seller, scootdawg forums, and tell them "good luck"

but telling them to buy a Honda really doesn't do anything for them at all

I would like DeBinChe to actually try to help people by posting which Chinese brands and models he has personal experience with and what went wrong with them, in other words be specific. By pointing out the specifics he could save someone a good deal of money and frustration. I suppose the Chinese guy who bought any one of a number of American cars during the 70s and 80s might say that all American cars are crap, not realizing that there may be a huge difference between brands or even models of the same brand.

I am a long time motorcycle mechanic and very experienced with the older Vespa scooters but I've only ridden one Chinese scooter in my entire life. My experience with Lifan and Hensim motorcycles lead me to believe that there may be some decent quality Chinese scooters out there. I'd like to know which are good and which are bad and why.

DudeClone, you forgot one other thing....

If they have a little knowledge of how to turn a wrench, they can usually fix the issues of these cheap scooters without spending too much $$$.

And DaBinChe, if it's coming out of China, It's Not from Japan or Taiwan.

Yes there are companies that contract out to the Chinese manufacturers, the difference between whether the label says Sony or S0ny, is the QC end of things. Sort of like the "Made In USA" back in the 1960's when there were cheap electronics that were "Made In Usa" Usa Japan.

I do love your hypocrisy of buying a chinese Honda Elite. If Chinese products are so bad as you put it, why did you buy one?

I've had a Chinese scooter, an Apollo 250 - basically, an upscale Jonway. I got it in Feb 2008, and have over 8k on the meter.

A suggestion is to run over to http://scootdawg.proboards.com and browse around. Ya gotta be willing to work on it yourself cause the dealers who'll work on them are few and far between. You'll find a lot of talk about a PDI (post delivery inspection). You basically take the plastic off and check every nut, bolt, put dialectric grease on all electrical connections. Took me 2 days to do this and I haven't had a single problem. It also got me really edumacated about the inner workings of the scoot.

It does 60 without breaking a sweat, 70 if I ask, and gets about 65mpg. So far it's been a lot of fun. Cost $1,800 to my driveway.