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Old 04-14-2008, 09:31 AM   #1
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Garmin Mac Software

Let me introduce myself... My name is Brian and I am an engineer for Garmin on their Mac software team. We were given a link to this site by some of the ADV rider users and found that you guys have a well of valuable information for us.

I won't be able to answer too many questions about crashes or technical issues, so if you are experiencing technical issues please send us an email (mac.bobcat@garmin.com).

During the beta of Project: Bobcat we are looking for feedback about the software, including bug reports, user interface improvements, and general software ideas and improvements. We are very interested in hearing your feedback, so please use the "Report Issues to Garmin" option in the Bobcat Help menu to send us a mail.

I am also very familiar with all the other Garmin Mac software, so if you have questions or feedback about anything from MapInstall to WebUpdater to POI Loader, let me know.

Thanks in advance for the information!
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:43 AM   #2
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Welcome aboard Brian!
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:53 AM   #3
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Question

welcome brian,
i have a few questions that are probably considered a little stupid so i apologize beforehand.
i have had a 76csx for about a year and a half, i do not have a PC with a DVD drive so i either have to go to a friends to upload stuff or to an internet cafe.
we DO have a powerbook G4.
now that there is software for macs.....
what do i need to do to use my mac and my garmin???
do i need to BUY new software?
is there software i can just download off of mygarmin.com?
thanks for your help.
-charles
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:17 AM   #4
Brent4ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZR
welcome brian,
i have a few questions that are probably considered a little stupid so i apologize beforehand.
i have had a 76csx for about a year and a half, i do not have a PC with a DVD drive so i either have to go to a friends to upload stuff or to an internet cafe.
we DO have a powerbook G4.
now that there is software for macs.....
what do i need to do to use my mac and my garmin???
do i need to BUY new software?
is there software i can just download off of mygarmin.com?
thanks for your help.
-charles

Maybe I can help you. You first need to convert your maps on a PC using mapconverter. (Link here) You then need to get mapinstall and bobcat for your mac. (These programs can be found here). Just follow the directions from the last link and you should be fine. The good is that all this software is free. The bad is that you need to find a PC with a DVD drive to convert your maps so that you can use them on your mac. Good luck.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:29 AM   #5
Brent4ADV
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Brian,
I just have a few suggestions for you for Bobcat. I think many on here will echo these sentiments.

1) The ability to select what you send/receive to/from the unit and computer instead of sending and receiving everything.
2) A track tool would be a very welcomed addition since many users here create tracks to follow. (The areas we ride may not have roads on City Nav and many users like to use Roads and Rec. or Topo to create rides so tracks makes creating these much easier)
3) When editing routes, if you add a waypoint and click back on the "directions" tab it then recalculated the whole route instead of just that one section where you added the waypoint. This is pretty frustrating when you are working with routes that include a few hundred waypoints and extend to hundreds of miles.
4) Having the search window be a floating window (like the route editing window) instead of a pull out drawer. This would allow the user to expand the area of the screen covered by map so that he/she can view more of the map while seeing the search results at the same time.
5) Incorporating the mapinstall program functions into Bobcat would make the transition of maps much easier for first-time Bobcat users. I think the multitude of different programs can be confusing for those users.
6) Also a "save" function would be beneficial. Many users create routes and since there is no save function, we are not sure if the next time we open the program that these newly-created routes and waypoints are going to be available.

Ok, That's about all I can think of. We really appreciate you coming here and getting some input. We are just as anxious as you are to get this program polished and functional. Thanks.

Brent
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01lc4intheham
Brian,
I just have a few suggestions for you for Bobcat. I think many on here will echo these sentiments.

1) The ability to select what you send/receive to/from the unit and computer instead of sending and receiving everything.

Bobcat currently allows you to send specific data if you desire. Just select the folder with the data you want to send before hitting the send button, and only the data in that folder is sent. When it comes to receiving data that is a different story. Your feedback is noted, and we'll see if their is anyway for us to selectively receive data from a device.

2) A track tool would be a very welcomed addition since many users here create tracks to follow. (The areas we ride may not have roads on City Nav and many users like to use Roads and Rec. or Topo to create rides so tracks makes creating these much easier)

We are currently working on adding track editing features. Look for these to be included in either the next release or release after that of Bobcat.

3) When editing routes, if you add a waypoint and click back on the "directions" tab it then recalculated the whole route instead of just that one section where you added the waypoint. This is pretty frustrating when you are working with routes that include a few hundred waypoints and extend to hundreds of miles.

Feedback noted. I will discuss this with our Route properties expert to see what can be done.

4) Having the search window be a floating window (like the route editing window) instead of a pull out drawer. This would allow the user to expand the area of the screen covered by map so that he/she can view more of the map while seeing the search results at the same time.

Thanks for the info about this one, we will have to think about it.

5) Incorporating the mapinstall program functions into Bobcat would make the transition of maps much easier for first-time Bobcat users. I think the multitude of different programs can be confusing for those users.

Integration with MapInstall is on our schedule and will definately be in the application when it is released.

6) Also a "save" function would be beneficial. Many users create routes and since there is no save function, we are not sure if the next time we open the program that these newly-created routes and waypoints are going to be available.

Bobcat is fundamentally different from MapSource in regarding how it manages its data. MapSource is a document based application where you open/close/save files when you want to edit them. Bobcat is much different in that your data is always automatically saved and stored in a database. When you run Bobcat next time you will begin working right where you left off, no need to press a 'save' or 'open' button. This is similar to how applications like iTunes or iPhoto work. Hopefully any confusion has been cleared up, if not let me know.

Ok, That's about all I can think of. We really appreciate you coming here and getting some input. We are just as anxious as you are to get this program polished and functional. Thanks.

Brent
Please see my inline comments above...
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01lc4intheham

1) The ability to select what you send/receive to/from the unit and computer instead of sending and receiving everything.

And maybe implement that in the same way iTunes does, ie: in the left-hand pane, show Bobcat's folders of "playlists" in expandable folders in the top part of the pane.

In the lower part of that pane, have the attached GPS units appear, where they can be browsed, or have items dragged to and from, just like and iPod in iTunes.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:12 AM   #8
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Welcome, Brian. You're on the clock, so I'll spare you getting me a beer.

I've been cautiously using Bobcat for a few weeks. First, to cross reference and check the Trans america trail route transcription from Sam's maps & rollcharts from TN to NM. Second, this past weekend, to pre-run the northern TNJ trail, and give feedback to the creator(s).

Great job so far! I definitely have some observations for improvements that will be of great use to us.

First; we tend to prioritize the smaller / dirt / secondary roads, so it is extremely painful to have them disappear at anything greater than 0.2 mile resolution with CNNA2008, and 0.8 mile on USTopo2008. Could this be set higher, or even better an adjustable option? Far-zoom detail: all roads visible at 800ft - 0.2mi - 0.3 - 0.5 - 0.8 - 1.2 - 1.5, etc. : User choice? Let me give you a scenario: Someone sends me a route to follow... I'm tooling along, and run into an obstacle (gate, washout, flood, shotgun-wielding lunatic). I need to reroute. It would be nice to see the big picture, and the secondary roads at the same time. As it is, if you have to reroute 15 miles away, you'll be scrolling around for a good while following the little roads to see what goes through. Lots of logging roads are dead ends. If you just let the software do it's thing, you may miss a nice road that is neither shortest distance, nor fastest time. At least on Bobcat you have the "scenic route" option, but I have no idea what that algorithm does when transferred to the handheld units that auto-route.

Second; It seems when pulling up a track, then getting info, there are some features not yet active? The time stamps of individual points would be great to have... that way I could correlate it exactly with where I was when I took a photo, or ran into a gate. Maybe add a "Keep map centered on highlighted point" option? That way you could scroll down through the points while scanning the times and watching the map moving to keep it centered at that point.

Third; Is it possible to add a "rubberbanding" feature as currently is implemented on the handheld itself? Very useful when plotting routes with the handheld GUI, and ends up easier than adding a waypoint to the end of your route, and then moving it up the list to be inserted at the desired sequence.

Fourth; Is it possible to add an option so that you know that the handheld will automatically route the same way Bobcat does? There are different auto-routing options on the handheld vs. Bobcat, and it would be nice if you didn't have to test your waypoint choices and subsequent autorouting as set in Bobcat a second time on the handheld, and then readjust as necessary. Maybe a way to force Bobcat to route exactly like your handheld will. I presume you would have a different emulation algorithm for each family of handhelds. Distributing a route for a big group would still have to be navigated directly from point to point with autorouting off, but if I'm setting up a route for myself, it would be great to be able to test it on Bobcat and know that WISIWIG when I'm on the road / trail. As it stands, thats the one thing that has prevented me from using Bobcat to create the routes for the TAT. I can make the route on the handheld, test each section autorouting, and if it's good, then receive it from one handheld, and send it to the other.

Finally, it would be great if the folders where the user data is saved was in a place where it could be copied easily and carried or sent to another computer. I have a desktop, laptop, and a couple of computers at work, and use an iPod to carry files back and forth to keep everything synchronized and backed up. I've figured out where you've stashed all the relevant files in user/lib/app support/garmin/bobcat... but if I go and visit someone and say... hey, let me show you this.. my only option is to send it from my handheld... and then we edit the route and add some waypoints and they want to send it back to me, I've got to send it back, and then everything's a mess. Maybe an option to update changes, or add changes, or overwrite changes? Consider the scenario where you go to a dual sport event, and the organizers upload the waypoints and routes to your handheld.

Anyway, looking forward to your efforts.... we'll do our best to help.
d
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:44 AM   #9
Brent4ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR. Rock
Second; It seems when pulling up a track, then getting info, there are some features not yet active? The time stamps of individual points would be great to have... that way I could correlate it exactly with where I was when I took a photo, or ran into a gate. Maybe add a "Keep map centered on highlighted point" option? That way you could scroll down through the points while scanning the times and watching the map moving to keep it centered at that point.
I am able to see the time stamp on my tracks. See below. I would be nice for the program to centered on track points as you click them though (maybe this will be included when the track tool is implemented).

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Old 04-14-2008, 12:31 PM   #10
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Welcome to ADV!
Now let the harassment begin:

Another feature that would be nice for inputting routes would be to have a distance measurement while drawing the route out. If you have a list of points and they are measured in miles it is hard to get the exact distances when drawing the route out with the "route tool". if there was a running count as you pulled the route line it would be very nice.

also I don't think the "copy and paste" works yet. when creating routes on bobcat it is sometimes hard to go back to a route that i was working on before closing the computer and it will start a new route rather than continuing on the one i was working on. when this happens i have 2 routes rather than one and have to label them "part 1 and part 2". if i try to copy the points and paste them into another route (like when I want to combine routes 1 and 2) Bobcat wont do it. Is this because "copy and paste" aren't enabled in the beta version?

Thanks for coming over here to ADV, it is great that you guys at Garmin are talking to us users.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:12 AM   #11
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exporting data

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01lc4intheham
I am able to see the time stamp on my tracks. See below. I would be nice for the program to centered on track points as you click them though (maybe this will be included when the track tool is implemented).

I have been using a garmin gps and mapsource for some years. One of the features that I like, that I am having trouble with in bobcat is exporting the data from a track.
I save the data when I take a trip and plot it using excel against some data from another device. With bobcat the time and location exports into the text based file, but the speed and elevation/altitude data does not. I can see and use it in bobcat as shown in the previous post but not after exporting.

This is an improvement I would like to see.

Thanks and glad to see garmin, and yourself, taking an interest in how we use the devices and software
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Old 04-16-2008, 03:42 AM   #12
DR. Rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01lc4intheham
I am able to see the time stamp on my tracks. See below. I would be nice for the program to centered on track points as you click them though (maybe this will be included when the track tool is implemented).

I'm not... using a 60Csx. Is there a setting on the handheld that I don't have activated?

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Old 04-14-2008, 11:01 AM   #13
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Welcome Brian. Thanks for all the hard work to finally get us Mac users a mapping program. I was able to use the latest Bobcat to convert my topo maps and draw up several thousand miles of routes to upload to my 60csx. Works pretty good. It works at least as well as the Windows version of mapsource that crashes frequently. A Mac version of the map converter would be nice though so that one doesn't need access to a Windows machine to get started with maps they already own.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:10 AM   #14
Brent4ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trent
Welcome Brian. Thanks for all the hard work to finally get us Mac users a mapping program. I was able to use the latest Bobcat to convert my topo maps and draw up several thousand miles of routes to upload to my 60csx. Works pretty good. It works at least as well as the Windows version of mapsource that crashes frequently. A Mac version of the map converter would be nice though so that one doesn't need access to a Windows machine to get started with maps they already own.
Garmin is releasing all of their new maps in a mac-compatible format so that will cure the need for mapconverter in the future. As for any of the older maps, I think we'll just have to suck it up.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:25 PM   #15
christian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarminMac
Let me introduce myself... My name is Brian and I am an engineer for Garmin on their Mac software team. We were given a link to this site by some of the ADV rider users and found that you guys have a well of valuable information for us.

I won't be able to answer too many questions about crashes or technical issues, so if you are experiencing technical issues please send us an email (mac.bobcat@garmin.com).

During the beta of Project: Bobcat we are looking for feedback about the software, including bug reports, user interface improvements, and general software ideas and improvements. We are very interested in hearing your feedback, so please use the "Report Issues to Garmin" option in the Bobcat Help menu to send us a mail.

I am also very familiar with all the other Garmin Mac software, so if you have questions or feedback about anything from MapInstall to WebUpdater to POI Loader, let me know.

Thanks in advance for the information!
I've been holding getting a mac because of Garmin support for mapsource. Now I may end up buying one. I do so much with GPS that I have to have a laptop with full garmin support. Many of the GPSXchange.com forum would like Mac support too, you can also get some feedback from there. let me know if you need any help thanks
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